With regards to .NET, Server and Desktop licensing is always free on any modern Windows OS.
With .NET development, you only pay for the higher-end IDE's, if you want one. The Express IDE versions are free, as well as SharpDevelop, which is an open-source IDE for .NET http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx Also with .NET, aside from just Web apps - you can build Desktop apps, Web Services (of course), Windows Services (a.k.a. NT Services), installers, DOS Console apps, PocketPC apps, MS Office add-ins, and Web apps for mobile devices. And in the past 4 years there has only been one or two security issue that I know of. http://www.google.com/search?q=ASP.NET+security+vulnerabilities Does Zend help any with all the PHP issues? http://www.google.com/search?q=PHP+security+vulnerabilities Some points to consider. >From ~ Scott Cadillac, Software Programmer For Hire Email ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone ~ 403-254-5002 Web ~ http://www.xmlx.ca Mail ~ XML-Extranet P.O. Box 69006 RPO Bridlewood SW Calgary, Alberta Canada T2Y 4T9 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:17 AM > To: witango-talk@witango.com > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Tough question > > I agree with you robert. I have also gotten some WiTango > contracts off list. > > Development is a big part of it. although the WiTango > development studio lite is free, it isn't full-featured and > there are many things you can't do with it. You can't seven > see the SQL from a search action. > > For development: > - Cold Fusion development server 100% free - Dreamweaver 8 to > develop $99.00 total cost: $99.00 > - ASP.NET development w MSDN: $1099.00 (Gives you a copy of > every Microsft operating system, SQL Server, Sharepoint, > Office, Visual Studio.net enterprise, etc....... > - Visual Studio Stand-alone --- FREE! Without MSDN > subscription. Microsoft has changed the rules! > - PhP 100% FREE > - WiTango Development studio - $779.00 > > By the way, I developed a bugtracking system in WiTango for > tracking my projects. I am offering this FREE to anyone who > wants it. Full open-sourced and using an Access database, but > easily ported to another database platform. The url is: > www.webenergy-sw.com/bugtracker > Username: test > Password: test > > For a full list of features email me. However it has email > notification to your client and you when a new message or > issue is posted, a WYSIWYG editor, and a whack of other features! > I was going to try and get it listed on the WiTango site as a > free component, but haven't heard back from Phil. > > > <http://www.webenergy-sw.com/images/webenergylogo2.jpg> > Rick Sanders > President > 519-498-7994 > www.webenergy-sw.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Garcia <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: witango-talk@witango.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:31 AM > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Tough question > > I wouldn't have left, if I thought it WASN'T dying. I > have so much invested, and I also love the platform. And I > have been active on this list, and active pursuing witango > inc. for the missing documentation, and bug issues to try to > do my part to help, but that is a dead end. > > Alot of witango devs contact me off list, and most, are > only using it until they have the ability to move off. > > The unfortunate thing is, I think it is mainly the > support issues, pricing, documentation, lack of sample/get me > started code, and lack of developers that are the biggest > reasons. I think their are many more, but those are going to > be its death. > > I think the only chance it has is to, like you said, > really push some great get me started code, or services based > on it, and to lower the price to something like $600/cpu for > standard server, and $199 for the studio, and get it in as > many hands as possible. It is way overpriced for its position > in the market. It has turned in to the red headed step child. > > Also, they have come a long way in stability, but the > feature set has fallen way behind. Just look what you can do > in PHP, coldfusion, etc. with there built in APIs. > > And with people like you, me, ben, and other "helpers" > on the list moving on, the support is even going to get worse. > > > -- > > Robert Garcia > President - BigHead Technology > VP Application Development - eventpix.com > 13653 West Park Dr > Magalia, Ca 95954 > ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ > > On Dec 14, 2005, at 7:51 AM, Rick Sanders wrote: > > > > Reading the messages the past few days > certainly has me concerned. Is WiTango really dying? > I have been a die-hard Tango user since 1998, > and I love the product to death. > > Unfortunately, I've had to take Cold Fusion as > my other web technology. I also took on ASP.Net and Microsoft > Content Management Server. > > The web programming world has changed > drastically over the past 4 years, and customers want to have > a stable solution done is a platform that is well-known and > can easily be taken over by another developer. > > PhP has seen giant advances in its product, and > has become mainstream for many Windows developers as well. > > Personally, I think the only way to keep > WiTango alive is to build some main-stream solutions such as > a content management system, package it as a solution and sell it. > > The hardest thing is to try and sell the > technology to a company who never heard of it. Add to the > fact that Cold Fusion & Dreamweaver 8 are just as fast for > developing web applications. > > Finally, the money just isn't there like it > used to be. The days of the million dollar website are few > and far between, so we have to work 5 times as hard to keep > our income level at our same standards. > > I still use WiTango, and still love the > product. I just feel like I'm selling pretzels when everyone > else is buying nachos. > > > <http://www.webenergy-sw.com/images/webenergylogo2.jpg> > Rick Sanders > President > 519-498-7994 > www.webenergy-sw.com <http://www.webenergy-sw.com> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Garcia > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: witango-talk@witango.com > <mailto:witango-talk@witango.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:25 AM > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Tough question > > Many have questioned PHPs ability in > the enterprise, for me, it was the zend platform that > answered that for me. > > Here is a great resource to see how > yahoo made the move from their own proprietary code, to > zend/php - mysql. > > http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/ > <http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/> > > Take a look at the pdf of a ppt > presentation done on 10/20/2005. > > > -- > > Robert Garcia > President - BigHead Technology > VP Application Development - eventpix.com > 13653 West Park Dr > Magalia, Ca 95954 > ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://bighead.net <http://bighead.net> > / - http://eventpix.com <http://eventpix.com> / > > On Dec 13, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Michael > Dittbrenner wrote: > > > > > Robert > > > > We have also made the same > decision as you and for the same reasons. My witango server > CONSTANTLY goes down. We have decided to go with a LAMP stack > instead. Plus the amount of developers. Its a lot easier to > get a PHP developer. > > > > Mike D > > > > **************************************** > Educational Directories Unlimited, Inc. > > > > Michael Dittbrenner > Systems Administrator > http://www.StudyAbroad.com > <http://www.StudyAbroad.com> > http://www.GradSchools.com > <http://www.GradSchools.com> > A service of EDU, Inc... > http://www.EDUdirectories.com <http://www.EDUdirectories.com> > A partner of EDU Internet > Strategies: http://www.EDUInternetStrategies.com/ > <http://www.EDUInternetStrategies.com/> > > > > [Phone] 610-499-9200 > [Fax] 610-499-9205 > [E-mail] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > or [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Robert Garcia > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:02 PM > To: witango-talk@witango.com > <mailto:witango-talk@witango.com> > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: > Tough question > > > > Take a look at Zend/PHP. Pay > special attention to the Zend Platform. > > > > I haven't posted it yet, but I > have decided to completely move off of the witango platform > for many reasons, and we have just purchased our licenses for Zend. > > > > Why PHP over others? > > > > First, I wouldn't have chosen > php on its own, it was the zend package that made it the > witango killer for me. Only $999 per cpu per year, with > unlimited support. This have been my main beef with Witango. > The support, IMHO, has a lot to be desired. I am tired of > asking for left out documentation, and dealing with many > bugs, especially in the studio. > > > > Witango has always had one > great benefit, its fast to get to prototype. But this is > completely negated by a couple of factors. > > > > 1. Too many bugs in the studio > that cuz workarounds, rebuilding actions, crashing, taking > more time than you desire. Especially the !CST bug on the > mac. I have to check each taf in a text editor, and fix > manually many times. > > > > 2. Text encoding issues, and > other undocumented problems. For instance, witango most of > the time expects ISO-8859-1 and outputs it, but not always, > and the only way to find out, is tear your hair out trial and > error. I have asked for help/documentation, but apparently I > don't own enough servers, or this isn't considered > installation support, so I have to pay $1500 support > subscription, to get it. One issue that took me many hours to > get right, was that when you send text through a bean, > Witango expects ASCII coming out, and converts it to ISO. > This was very hard to detect. If I sent out ISO from the > bean, it didn't work, and if I sent ascii, and then looked > for ascii, it didn't work, but if I sent out ASCII from the > bean, and then treated the witango text from the bean as ISO, > it worked. I have asked Witango Inc, for 2.5+ years to > provide documentation on the beanhandler, and have still not > received it. Many requests. > > > > 3. Due to things like the > encoding issues, trial and error with beans and stuff, you > lose your fast time to prototype when you prepare for > deployment. In prototype, it just has to work with some test > examples. In deployment, it has to work with whatever your > customers are going to throw at it, and effciently, so that > it doesn't peg a cpu, and take down your servers under load. > I find myself spending too many hours wrestling performance > out of witango, when I should be inventing. > > > > 4. Code base. Periodically, I > see a post on the list, where is that one blog example? or > something like that. Do a google search for "php blog", or > whatever, and look at the tons of examples you have to choose > from. Support? Aside from my unlimited Zend support, there > are MANY lists, and google will be your best friend. When I > code in .NET, or VB, or RB, I can get tons of help and > examples from google, nothing on witango. > > > > 5. Developer availability. > There are tons of php developers to choose from out there. > BTW, if you are a witango dev and good at php, send me your resume. > > > > Anyway, the hardest issue when > looking, was cluster management, and session tracking in a > cluster. Witango does this seamlessly. The Zend platform was > even easier to set up to do this. I have a test cluster of 4 > php servers on Fedora core 4, and one zend management server. > I can hit my zend management console, and administer > everything, and get excellent status feedback. Just watch the > demo on the zend platform on the site. > > > > Also, on my zend management > console, I can change the php.ini settings on one server, > then clone the settings to any or all of the rest in one step. > > > > The dev studio has STEP > debugging, code folding, subversion support, cross platform, > yada yada. The Zend platform send events to your studio for > you to fix. Its a great product, can't wait to get it live. > > > > The platform does code > optimization, or precompilation. This is a sort of byte order > compilation that precompiles your scripts to get better > performance in looping and such. > > > > And for when I really need > performance, a fully optimized and documented java bridge > function for running java classes and beans. > > > > In the near future I will be > documenting my progress of switching it all over on my site, > at http://www.bighead.net/tools/ <http://www.bighead.net/tools/> > > > > I have nothing against .NET, > but I find I can develop much faster, and there is so much > good, free/cheap code out there for php so that you are > rarely starting from scratch on a project. Also, I have had > some real world experience with linux vs. windows with > performance on the same hardware. I am loving fedora 4. > > > > Anyway, Zend gave me a volume > dicount, so only $799/cpu for my servers, so for 6 servers, > and 4 dev studios, I only paid $5691. And I get unlimited > support. And I have been testing it, it is excellent so far. > > > > -- > > > > Robert Garcia > > President - BigHead Technology > > VP Application Development - > eventpix.com > > 13653 West Park Dr > > Magalia, Ca 95954 > > ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > http://bighead.net > <http://bighead.net> / - http://eventpix.com <http://eventpix.com> / > > > > On Dec 13, 2005, at 1:37 PM, > Wolf, Gene wrote: > > > > > > I hate asking this question but > most of you have either faced this question from your > customers or management in the past or have addressed it > yourselves. I figured I'd go to the people who know best. > > I have been strongly encouraged > by my management to look for and train my people in a more > mainstream product. They have been very patient (3 years now) > and very pleased with the productivity that my group can > deliver with Witango. However they can't take it upstairs to > corporate. They can't find it in any trades, they can't find > mention of it in any recent reviews, they can't find people > who know it locally, etc. It makes them nervous. Hence the > encouragement to move on. > > Witango has been a great tool > for me for 10 years. I've been here since the Everyware days. > However I understand management's nervousness. My question > is, what mainstream product comes close to doing what Witango > does? We're looking at Visual Studio, Oracle HTML DB, and > some other tools. Some are slicker than Witango in that you > can create templates, etc, but none come close to ease of use. > > Anyone have any suggestion for > a migration path? We're a Windows shop currently using MS SQL > Server but transitioning to Oracle. Thanks for any > suggestions you can give. > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to > http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > <http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to > http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > <http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf> > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to > http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > <http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf> > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to > http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to > http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
