Re: SPAM-MED: RE: Witango-Talk: OT: Witango hosting

[Robert Garcia]

We use mysql 5, solely innodb, and it screams. And it has been more  
reliable, and has outperformed anything to date.

Here is a good story....

http://www.peachdirect.com is a very heavy trafficed site, and has  
several intense web apps. It was all running off of mssql, for years.  
They take millions of dollars of web orders a day. Their business  
went through the roof last year, and they were choking tremendously.  
I told them it was the mssql server. I did many tests, and it was  
obvious to me with the experience I had doing this before with eventpix.

They have oracle technicians, and mssql certified experts on site,  
that argued with my assertions, so they tweaked, bought in better  
hardware for the mssql server, and it still couldn't keep up. They  
blamed it on the app server.

They went to dual xeon processors, each 3 ghz, and 8 gigs of ram,  
with high speed scsi raid (10k or 15k rpm, don't remember), etc....

That still didn't catch up. So they bought in a second server, to  
replicate. The DB was also serving images to the sites, and so the  
idea was to use replication, and then, have 1 db server serve the  
images, and the other all else. It definitely helped but not good  
enough.

Still no go, and they asked me what I would do.....

Several months prior, they sent me an unused server, to setup with  
windows, for a project they wanted to do. But they changed their  
minds, and just told me to hold it until they needed. It was a dell  
poweredge server, with dual xeon processors, 8 gigs of ram, and HW  
raid controller card, and high speed cheetah disks. It's processors  
were slower than the windows mssql servers, but it was close.

I told them I would put mysql on linux on the old server, tune it up  
myself, and then migrate them all over to mysql. They were scared to  
death, but I have saved them out of situations like this before.  
Also, I put my money where my mouth was, and told them I would not  
charge them, if it didn't work, and we could switch back in a day to  
mssql. This was a tough thing to say, since there was a huge cost,  
and a lot of work to do the migration. We had to do the whole thing,  
in a couple of days, with no sleep.

We did it, and lets just say, their are no more complaints. The mysql  
box, doesn't even break a sweat. The idea was to follow up with a  
second mysql box, and do replication, but the speed was so dramatic,  
they said they would do it later.

The only issue came when, we didn't have a second linux box, so we  
put the dev mysql server on windows. It is MUCH slower, and they  
regularly complain about that. Soon they will be installing linux on  
another box for the dev server.

One thing to note, MySQL, doesn't sing unless you tune it. Especially  
with innodb. But once tuned, it sings. But most dbs are like that.  
And I learned from the tons of data on google about mysql.

Anyway, thats a true story. When I changed over to mysql, for  
eventpix, and all the clients I host, I was incredibly surprised, and  
it was love at first site. :-) And I always told people it was faster  
than MS using linux. But I got the chance on this occasion to pay the  
check my mouth was writing.

--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Feb 19, 2007, at 10:30 AM, William M Conlon wrote:

I would concur that if you just take the same transaction-oriented  
benchmark and apply it to MySQL, you'll find it lacking in  
performance.  It's not surprising that out of the box, MSSQL has  
higher transactions per second, after all they were the TPS race  
that was so prominent a few years ago, and that benchmark is a  
major point of comparison.

But MySQL is a different animal, and the big issue is how you  
handle locking, which influences the table type you choose and how  
you model your data and build your app.  I'm only familiar with  
MySQL 4.1 and below, and only the VERY fast MyISAM tables, which do  
not support ROW locking. But by using LAST_INSERT_ID as the foreign  
key, you can INSERT into related tables without any locks!  It's  
possible to use relative updates, depending on how you structure  
your related tables, to avoid the need for transaction locking on  
updates.

The operations are still atomic, but without transaction locks, and  
VERY fast.  Of course you sacrifice a lot of things you get with a  
real Transaction, and I think MySQL still needs improvements in  
indexing performance.  But I think the decision should be made on  
issues other than speed.

Bill

William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
To the Point
2330 Bryant Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301
   vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
   fax:  650.329.8335
mobile:  650.906.9929
e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   web:  http://www.tothept.com


On Feb 19, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Rick Sanders wrote:

Hi Jason,



I have one client on a dedicated server. They process about  
200,000 transactions daily and have 20,000 visitors daily to the  
website.



We started with MYSQL. As the database grew, the performance  
decreased. We then switched over to MSSQL server and the  
performance was increased by 35%. We did this as a test.

Because the price for the license is high, we also offered  
Pervasive SQL which is considerably less expensive. Again, the  
performance increase was about 30 to 35% over MYSQL.



For the price, MYSQL can’t be beat. But, when you’re dealing with  
a lot of transactions and large amounts of data I prefer to use  
MSSQL if the client can afford it.



<image003.jpg>

Rick Sanders
President
902-401-7689
www.webenergy-sw.com



Shop online for computer systems, accessories, and much, much  
more! http://shop.webenergy-sw.com



From: Jason Pamental [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: February 19, 2007 12:17 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: SPAM-MED: RE: Witango-Talk: OT: Witango hosting



Stefan,



Well put. I think that there is enough research out there  
supporting the speed and capabilities of both engines to argue  
forever. Simply put though, MySQL is in use in enough high-traffic  
and mission critical enterprise installations that any blanket  
statements should be taken with a grain of salt. Rick - I don't  
mean to take away from your own research - we all have to rely in  
many cases on our own perceptions and experiences. But we should  
all try to refrain from making statements that can so easily  
undermine what others in the community are doing. I would think  
that if Robert Garcia were to weigh in on this he could spell out  
a very convincing case for MySQL given the tremendous load his  
projects put it under on a daily basis. Of course, I use SQL  
Server (2000 and 2005) as well as MySQL daily, and the ease of  
management and use with SQL Server is amazing, so I tend to lean  
towards SQL Server simply because I have it - but were I faced  
with having to purchase the licenses myself, I'm not sure I'd feel  
compelled to do so.



Cheers everyone-



Jason



-----



Jason Pamental

Director of Web Services

North Sails



Office: 401.643.1415

Fax: 401.643.1420

Mobile: 401.743.4406

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]










On Feb 19, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:




Hi Rick,

Those arguments are a far cry from "yech".  My point was just that  
Mysql is a reasonable
database and it's free. It doesn't deserve that kind of negative  
comment, which indirectly
casts aspersions on With. Obviously, their site doesn't need a  
super high performance
database, so a free one is just fine.

Stefan

At 10:13 AM 2/19/2007, you wrote:


Hi Stefan,

I won’t get into a debate, but on Windows in a high-volume  
production environment Microsoft SQL server is the fastest hands- 
down, followed by Pervasive SQL a close second.

I’ve never bench-marked MSSQL on Windows vs. MYSQL on Linux, but  
the research I have done stated that MSSQL is faster.

Also, I’ve done lots of work with MYSQL and in an environment  
where the traffic is high, MSSQL doesn’t perform well. Again, my  
experience has been on Windows.


<6b2db6b.jpg>


Rick Sanders
President
902-401-7689
www.webenergy-sw.com

Shop online for computer systems, accessories, and much, much  
more! http://shop.webenergy-sw.com

From: Stefan Gonick [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: February 19, 2007 10:45 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: SPAM-MED: RE: Witango-Talk: OT: Witango hosting

What is "yech" about Mysql?  Since version 4 it has been a quite  
usable database.

Stefan

At 09:37 AM 2/19/2007, you wrote:

I can’t believe they use MYSQL! Yech!


<6b2db7a.jpg>


Rick Sanders
President
902-401-7689
www.webenergy-sw.com

Shop online for computer systems, accessories, and much, much  
more! http://shop.webenergy-sw.com

From: Wolf, Gene [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: February 19, 2007 10:31 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Witango-Talk: OT: Witango hosting


   This is a bit off topic. I'm looking for a hosting service for  
my personal use. No, not business related. *laughs* If any of you  
offer site hosting and Witango app hosting (and perhaps database  
support as well) would you please send me some information  
pertaining to costs? Yes, I did try the Witango e-mail search  
looking for Hosting in the message title and received the  
following error message:

Error
An error occurred while processing your request:
File: searchforum.taf
Position: DirectDBMS
Class: DBMS
Main Error Number: 1064

[MySQL][ODBC 3.51 Driver][mysqld-5.0.22-community-max]You have an  
error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to  
your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'ORDER  
BY w1.datereceived DESC limit 50' at line 12
23000

File: searchforum.taf
Position: DirectDBMS
Class: Internal
Main Error Number: -101


Gene Wolf
Supervisor, Business Systems
DRS Sensors & Targeting Systems-Optronics
2330 Commerce Park Drive NE
Palm Bay, Florida 32905
Phone: 321-309-0685
           321-309-0202 (fax)

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