On Wednesday 26 April 2006 23:42, Sasha Vasko wrote: > Russell Shaw wrote: > > Sasha Vasko wrote: > > > > An X app might open a grid of top-level windows, and rearrange them > > as more windows are added or removed. > > No application should ever rely on being able to do that.
I completely disagree with this statement. Applications *should* be able to rely cooperating with the window manager when placing windows in a grid or some other arrangement on the screen. SDI style apps like the GIMP and those found on Mac OS X would be cumbersome to use (at best) without some kind of app<->wm cooperation about how and where multiple toplevel windows should be placed. > > Such apps may exist primarily for embedded systems without a window > > manager, but it is still useful to be able to use those apps where > > a WM is running. In that case, the WM must have a policy setting that > > allows the app to run as designed, or in a semi-managed way. > > Yes, that is what I'm saying - user (via window manager configuration) > determines how windows are placed. Not the client application. Requiring the *user* to configure the wm on how to place every single toplevel window the app opens is unacceptable. The application knows best how various toplevel windows relate to each other and it should be easy to allow the app to provide acceptable defaults for the user. If the wm makes this impossible, then the wm is broken. > > Window managers exist solely for the purpose of the *user* to specify > > how top-level windows should be managed. I'm not going to comment on this one, I'll get flamed badly :) > > This is why users and developers doing non-trivial stuff find GUI on > > linux crap compared to some proprietory systems. Indeed. We get bit by this all the time. Things that are trivial on Windows and Mac OS X are difficult and often impossible to do on X11 because of the "the WM knows best" mentality. > > The proper way to do this stuff is to have it easy to understand > > (adequate documentation and help systems), and have every parameter > > easily configurable > > by all users. > > Yes, and it is done in the Window Manager's configuration in order to > enforce uniform policy on all clients. Clients messing around with > placement is exactly the anarchy that you complain about. Wrong. If you force every client into submission, sooner or later they will revolt (just like in any dictatorship). App programmers get frustrated because their apps don't work the way they want; users get frustrated because the apps the want to use don't work the way they expect. This is the issue at hand. -- Bradley T. Hughes - bhughes at trolltech.com Trolltech AS - Sandakervn. 116, P.O. Box 4332 Nydalen, 0402 Oslo, Norway _______________________________________________ wm-spec-list mailing list wm-spec-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/wm-spec-list
