On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 11:07 AM, John Penlington wrote:
Forgive my frustration, but after a couple of months with this Discussion List I've formed the opinion no browser will display web standards - every one of them requires hacks of some kind.
I test on Win XP Pro with IE6 and Firefox - as well as on a new eMac with Safari and IE5(Mac).
All my earlier web sites with tables rather than CSS 2 display quite well on all four browsers.
Well, in this case my IE 5.2 dosn't like your use of "position: relative; left: -24px;" on your "UL" setup (in both "UL" cases).
If you want to position the "UL", put it in a "DIV" container and position it.
When I try to code for Web Standards, I get a medley of results. Hence my opinion that no browser complies completely.
None ever will, unless the "Standards Committee" creates it's own ...but that's another story for another day.
Now the crunch: I'm building a site for a photographer who wants pixel-precision layout on all browsers. At least we achieved it on IE6 with no tables, just CSS styling.
I'm aware that I shouldn't have done that, but please read on.
(see below)
After two weeks of frustration trying to get it to work precisely on the other browsers, I've finally resorted to tables and yes, wicked me, even a spacer gif.
The problem is that your page is only "pixel-precise" on a 96dpi system.
To be "pixel-precise" on all systems, you have to use "relative measurement" in your CSS (ie: em, %, and or keywords)
The home page (with inactive links) is at:
www.bluemountainsgardener.info/hobbs/index.asp
and the CSS is at:
www.bluemountainsgardener.info/hobbs/dhpg_style_tables.css
The display my client wants is exactly what you'll see with IE6.
What he doesn't want is what you'll see on Safari, Firefox and IE5(Mac).
Well, as you already know ...you have to start with a "standards browser" first and work backwards. This is even true with "tables".
The page validates for both XHTML 1.0 Transitional and CSS. Even the Unordered List menu breaks on IE5(Mac).
(see above)
Can anyone tell me why my valid (XHTML and CSS) page displays so differently in those four browsers - two of which are supposed to follow Web Standards closely (Firefox and Safari)?
(see above)
Where is my code sub-standard if it validates for both XHTML and CSS?
What do I need to do to get it to display roughly the same on all four browsers? Please don't tell me to use CSS 2 - I tried that and it simply didn't work !! The variations were unacceptable despite all the hacks I could find.
Start with "ccs2" and a "standards browser" a include an import of "ie7-xml.css".
You can find this life-saver at: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/intro/
Copy it from the "src" link in the breadcrump tail.
I know I'll be shot down in flames for raising this, but I really want to code for Web Standards and the frustration for me and my client is very real !!
So, ...do it in "tables" first, make it look on all, ...then take on CSS2.
I'm sure I'm not alone, but I'm keen to persevere.
Good luck and welcome to the club!! -chuck -a Mac guy-
Thanks to you all for such a helpful List. John Penlington web developer
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