Hi Barrie, I agree with what you are saying, but the problems accesskeys cause is too much of a headache for the time invested.
How have you assigned your keys? Do they clash with default hot keys of the major screen reading user agents? Have you gone through all this carefully? What about the problems users have distinguishing between when the browser toolbar or the canvas has the focus? This can lead to triggering tool events rather than onscreen events when common keys are used? Have you run a thorough testing suite on these designs, or is your design based on best of intention? I'm not being critical, but a lot of us have built great stuff, standard compliant, only to find out it screws up something terrible in the real world. One of the big problems is that the WCAG-GL never researched this properly and recommended a set of standard keys (to my knowledge), thus everyone went their own way. I'm not condemning the people that developed WCAG, they did a great job, but this particular area did not evolve into the fantastic feature it was meant to be. They tried to work with user agents in this area, but everyone had their own agenda. If you are using key listeners that is different, but it opens up a different set of areas that need to be addressed. Tab indexes are something different, and that pretty much has a standard set of behaviours across application software and the web. If your usability testing has confirmed your design, then you have a successful implementation, and I hope you can share that with us, because we all need to see ways to implement these things that aid users and don't hinder them. Geoff > -----Original Message----- > From: Of Barry Beattie > > > >> They are used to seeing this type of thing in application software, > but not on the web. > > > Geoff, from where I sit, I'd have to disagree. > > people are wanting more out of the web. > > clients are demanding more functionality in web development than just > stuff to read and look pretty. > > F'instance we're currently re-writing a legacy client/server app for the > web (in ColdFusion but we all wish we could afford Flex 'cos this would > be so much easier). > > because of this, we have key listeners and tab indexes everywhere. > Almost all of the app is made up of forms and reports. Because they are > familiar to a windows environment, this has become a defacto standard. > > the apps' user base starts from office workers (with some computer > skills) thru to teachers, students (as young as 8yo) and parents (with > diminishing computing skills). > > it's a pain in the backside but it has to be done > > just my 2c worth > barry.b > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Deering [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2004 12:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [WSG] access keys and tab index > > I agree with what Derek says, and he sums it up nicely. > > I have been using accesskeys since WCAG1 came out mid 99, and can cause > more > usability problems that provides ease of accessibility. I even use > <span> > to underline the key letter to indicate the access key, which is the > standard way to show an access key, and the feedback I got was that most > people think there is some sort of browser display problem when they see > it. > They are used to seeing this type of thing in application software, but > not > on the web. In cases like this, when I get this type of feedback, I > think > users are right, because it ends up being too foreign an interface for > them > when deployed rarely, then on top of that, you have the erratic > behaviour. > If they associate erratic behaviour with your web site, then what > impression > are you giving (... those crazy accessibility people:-)). > > It also seems that users require accesskeys and use them in different > ways > on the web than are used by applications software. In applications > software > it is mainly used for hotkeys and navigation, whereas it seems that most > users requiring them for accessibility would prefer that they be > designated > for prime operations, ie form navigation rather than site navigation. > > I'm not saying there is anything bad about accesskeys or the idea behind > them, but the way they have been implemented by user agents ... (and > also us > designers) has created a bit of a mess. It's a pity. > > I still use them, but more and more sparingly. Mainly for forms. But I > think this is a good idea that has to evolve somehow before it becomes > reasonably usable. But maybe the implementation is just not suited to > the > web. > > Geoff > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2004 9:44 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [WSG] access keys and tab index > > > > > > > > Hi ted, > > recommend you read (if you haven't already) this article > > > > More reasons why we don't use accesskeys: > > http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyconflicts/37 > > > > > > ***************************************************** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ***************************************************** > > > ***************************************************** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ***************************************************** > > > ***************************************************** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *****************************************************
