Patrick Lauke wrote:
Geoff Deering
I'd estimate it to be roughly the same as the percentage of
users that have reconfigured their OS to use different
default colours which would make them get confused by
*judiciously* styled form controls.
And what percentage of users that access those web pages would you
expect that to be?
You tell me...as they're the ones that you mentioned as a group
that would potentially have problems with designers styling form
controls in the first place, if I recall correctly...
No, you tell me, because this is your suggestion on how it should be
handled.
it just says it changes the background color, because this is
under the control of the custom settings of the users desktop
Anyway, I think we've bored the rest of the WSG list enough with
this fundamental "philosophical" difference. You advocate not
styling form controls at all to avoid any potential problems;
I say that judicious styling, combined with more refined and obvious
browser controls (it should be fairly easy to find the overrides, not
buried under 3-4 levels of options), plus possibly alternate
style sheets / site preferences, should not be a major problem as
long as designers are made aware of the potential problems and
don't just make arbitrary design choices (which anybody who calls
hHimself a designer shouldn't anyway). There's probably no way to
get our two views closer, so I'll agree to disagree once again :)
P
I think that people on this list are intelligent enough to know that if
they are bored with this thread they can easily ignore it by identifying
it by it's subject heading. But it may just be, if anyone is still
following it, that this discussion may at least provoke thinking more
deeply about the impacts of such design implementations.
I think that is one of the characteristics of the people on this list;
they approach design in this medium with a real care about the user
experience. I feel their intention comes for a real desire to be the
best possible designers, implementing great design, and try to emulate
best of practice within that context while understanding why there are
standards conventions to aid the user experience, accessibility,
appropriate use of markup etc.
It's not a philosophical difference here, it amazes me that this is the
perspective you draw, because it's clearly a difference of understanding
and interpreting the impact of standard interface design elements when
they clash with interface design conventions for communicating the state
of the user interface. It's not a philosophical issue, it's clearly a
functional issue.
No, you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying if you have
drawn the conclusion that; "You advocate not styling form controls at
all to avoid any potential problems". I know my English expression
could be improved, but if you draw this conclusion, you have completely
missed the point, and I think I have covered enough ground to make that
clear enough.
And the final solution you provide, which definitely has potential
merit, has many problems right at this point of time.
No user agent I know of currently has this capacity to abstract form
elements styles. So this isn't something one can recommend.
If designers are depending on users to override designs elements that
conflict with standard interactive design conventions, I feel their
fundamental approach to design is flawed, because they are not putting
the basic principles of the design of the interface of device interact
as a primary consideration.
As for your last statement, are designers well aware of this particular
issue? It seems from the discussion here they are not, and as I have
mentioned before, it is therefore important to highlight this problem,
because many designers try follow standard so they don't inflict
miscommunication on users, and the sad thing is that this particular
issue, I feel has not been address properly in web standards. It's not
designers fault. It's just been overlooked. How do you feel when you
have been designing something with all the best intention, then find out
you have unintentionally implemented a design that conflicts with user
interface principles? Software development and particularly web
development are rich in history of these types of misunderstandings and
implementation.
--------------
Geoff Deering
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