I agree - ignorance and "couldn't care less" are the commonest excuses for
not creating professional standards based Websites.


On Sun, February 24, 2008 4:02 am, Breton Slivka wrote:
> I don't really feel like participating in the dramatic part of this-
> But I can answer some of the questions about javascript.
>
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:53 PM, dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> i'm more of a designer than a developer.  my knowledge of javascript is
>> limited.  i am currently reading: javascript, the definitive guide by
>> david
>> flanagan.  help me out here please, if i'm off base or need more
>> information.
>>
>> i understand that javascript is a programming language.
>
> correct
>
>> i understand that javascript is needed to pass information from a form
>> to a
>> data base for storage or retrieval of data.
>
> Incorrect- Javascript is absolutely not needed for this. In fact, I
> would actively discourage this usage, because it makes forms
> inaccessable to clients without javascript. (Even though I do quite
> like javascript most of the time)
>
>> i also understand there are more uses for javascript than my above
>> remark,
>> but, again, my limited understanding of javascript draws a blank for
>> other
>> uses.
>
> Javascript is basically a tool to allow website authors to add browser
> features that are not built in to the browser. That's how I see it
> anyway. That's not exactly how most people use it, or think of it.
>
>> i don't understand why someone would code a page and use javascript that
>> would make the page not available without it.
>
> It's not strictly the usage of javascript that makes the page
> inaccessable, it's the page's dependance on it. If you think of
> javascript like I do- A tool for adding features- then the page still
> needs to be able to work without those features. The reasons for
> someone making a page that doesn't work without javascript are
> complicated, but it basically boils down to how the author thinks
> about what a webpage is, and how it works.
>
> I've spoken to the author for instance, of www.eventliving.com.  That
> website does not work at all without javascript- And there's really no
> reason that it can't. The issue is that the guy who programmed it had
> a background in Java application development- Not web development. He
> seemed to think of a website as a specialized kind of program. He
> didn't seem to know, for instance that the distinction between
> clientside javascript, and serverside java code was important. The
> goal was simply to get the website to work in IE, just like with any
> other program, the goal might be to simply get it to work in windows.
> There was no awareness of accessibility issues.
>
> But that's just one case. Someone might alternatively be perfectly
> aware of accessibility issues, and there are other reasons for
> depending on javascript. Accessibility, though in a sense is trivially
> easy once you know it, is percieved by a lot of people as being quite
> difficult. Application responsiveness might be a top priority, and the
> author simply sees no reason to make the site work without javascript.
>
>
>> would someone like to point me to some references on how to use
>> javascript
>> in a standards compliant way and have a go at the above question?
>
> hijax
>
> http://xtech06.usefulinc.com/schedule/paper/29
>
>>
>> dwain
>>
>
>
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