On 10 Sep 2009, at 04:03, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
Stephen Stewart On 09-09-09 16.05:
On 9 Sep 2009, at 14:37, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
Stephen added:
Some examples of chat on the web can be found at:
http://projectcerbera.com/!dev/irc-logs/day
I had a look at that page - was quite possible to represent that
chat log as a <dl> list.
[...]
Mibbit.com similarly uses a <table> but I think one example
with <table> is enough.
Bug 7808 [1] is about making <dialog> work *properly* [...]
Sorry, I got confused by the summary: "<dialog> needs a way to add
non- speech related information" and the current, not set in stone,
status of HTML5.
Your examples demonstrates that authors needs to learn how to mark
up dialogs with <dialog>/<dl> - in that way it was very related ...
If you think that dialogs are better, more accessible and more
simply marked up via other means, then that would be another bug
report. I'll only say that I think it is fruitless to say that we
should not have a <dialog> element if you at the same time also
want to advice against using <dl> for dialog. Personally I think
we could continue HTML 4's advice to use <dl> for dialogs,
especially if we add an attribute which informs that it is a
dialog - see bug 7509[2].
I do think that dialogues are more simply and better marked up by
other means,
Such as? (The draft, although not perfect, tells us where to put the
name and where to put the speech ... There is a recipe and it is
simple.)
I also think that since most popular chat mark-up appears not to
be using <dl> as encouraged by HTML 4 we should at least consider
the alternatives,
There has been a substream of people that have used <dl> always.
(There would be more if it was simpler to style.)
or remove it altogether and use what we have in <section> <h> and
<p>. I lean toward the latter.
Would you even use a <dl> for a glossary ... ?
Why do you want to use h1-h6 elements? To get an outline/ToC with
all the postings? Here is an almost real posting from a Norwegian
online newspaper, with a subject line represented with a <h5>:
<dt>Mr Waffel said, yesterday:</dt><dd>
<h5>RE: Norway won't reach the soccer final</h5>
<p>Yes, we will.</p>
<aside><a>New comment</a> <a>Reply</a> <a>Report</a></aside>
</dd>
My sense of it is that there are so many different and varied types of
dialogue available to mark-up that limiting a <dialog> to a set
structure like <dt><dd> is not far from saying you can only have <h1>
and <p> in <article>. Yes <dt><dd> is a perfect fit in some instances
but not in all (in my opinion not many).
In the process of discussing this I've come to the conclusion <dialog>
should be removed or perhaps become a simple sectioning element with
some examples[1] of how chat can be marked up within it.
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/chat-examples
--
leif halvard silli
--
Stephen Stewart
