You see Mr. Shandu it is very difficult for some of us to apprehend what you seek to achieve here. maybe you were not in this forum wherein by his own admission Cde Cronin did accept his responsibilities of attacking a person without reading the context of what is being raised. You can call all of us his sidekicks but the truth of the matter is that there is nothing you will achieve in this forum to pursue your die ambitions of dealing with Cde President (Not Chairperson) as you allude. Cde VC and Morgan have caution us to turn this platform to settle scores and then it defeat the purpose of what we seeks to do. That to ensure there is a crop of young Marxist/ Leninist who will ensure that in our pursuance of our Socialist future there will be those guardians of the Revolution. It does not help for you to vomit insults of senior cadres and turn around criticise other without doing self-criticism. I am telling you that as Chairperson of the Branch I together with my Branch are behind the President views and as such it is those structure that will define the fate of Majuju and not pseudo communist like you who cannot understand the task at hand. The SACP and YCL do not exist to replace the ANC but to classless consciousness to the society as a whole there by the dictatorship of the plotariat will then overcome the current imperialist dictatorship lead by the petty bourgeoises. Therefore Majuju is the least of the Real Marxist. Who said respect define you consicouseness? Who said we should submit to new tendencies wherein there is patronage, cohesive leadership and closure of space for engagement and when we raise our views you call us Majuju cohorts. Like all true Marxist said no amount of insult will deter us from pursuing our ultimate goal.
There is HIV/AIDS as our new enemy, which scientist are saying our life expectation has drastically dropped. the question we are suppose to be saying now is what are the Thesis and Anti-Thesis of the fight against this pandemic? You suppose to link theory and practice in the fight against this new enemy.Lets analyse the causes of these disease and evaluate our strategy for managing its impact and as youth thats what we expect from you. It cannot be correct that you are silent when people are defining your destiny without your voice and the only voice that seeks to speakout you find it very difficult to swallow its impact. I hope you will respect the view of those that say lets focus at the challenges facing society and not individual and then ask ourselves? what are societal expectation? How far have we move to hegemonise the working class consciousness in society? Is it correct for us to speak of a working class society in society wherein capitalism is branded as solution provider? If our education system still teach about individual excellency without regards of what other are enduring, can we say Socialism will be realised soon? hence I talk about linking our theory and practice to change the course of our revolution. >>> sipho shandu <[email protected]> 2009/11/30 02:23 PM >>> Greetings cdes, Karl Marx was never involved in the election of our very rude and ill disciplined cde Julius Malema and his sidekicks i.e. Floyd and other people within our midst in this forum. Cadres seem not to understand the meaning of a robust engagement and end up name calling people when they feel that they have nothing to say. Julius was elected by us and sooner or later we are going to rid of him as he has lost touch with us and forgotten our mandate. Julius has no respect for anyone but himself and his grandmother. I used to respect him as the national chairperson of the YL but now i olny rspect the chair and not the person. He has totally divided cadres with his uncontrollable verbal diarrhoea. I believe that whenever we refer to Julius malema we should also include his new nickname: "Cadre Disaster". Those that keep on siding with cde disaster are blind to his misbehaviour lately. A true leader behaves in public and also respects senior cadres. Our honourable president (ZUMA) is living testimony of that. Cadre disaster and his goons are destructing everything our sung and unsung heroes fought for and sooner or later we will end up like Ethopia or Zim. Wake up cadres and smell the coffee. We need to do something!!!!!!!! You are turning a blind eye!!!!! On 11/30/09, morgan phaahla <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear VC, > > Thanks for your attempt to rescue the debate and I doubt if cadres have > been able to explore this piece in the broader context of nationalisation > versus socialisation. Some have called for a discussion paper but without > terms of reference. > > Be as it may, nationalisation policy will not yield a desired state in SA. > Correctly so, nationalisation will only serve the interests of the > bourgeoisie. We all know that problems of distressed mines are not > necessarily the result of the financial crisis but class interest and crony > capitalism in the form of BEE deals that backfired - an act of insolvency > and thereby exposing the BEE shareholding to liquidation. > > For instance, the call for the state to take over 60% ownership of the > mines remains very much ambiguous - it does not make business sense. Where > would this money come from? The Land question remains unresolved and the > state is no where near to meet its 2014 target of redistributing 30% of all > agricultural land as a result of the recession. > > Economically speaking, what would be the rationale of the nationalising > mines, when you have recession - economy is depressed and firms are not > making profit? It's equal to call for the state to use good money to keep > bad business in business which never benefitted ordinary people. This is not > only counter revolutionary but compromise development in its entirety. > > Correctly so, nationalisation will only serve the interests of the > bourgeoisie. By the way, there is no where Marx or Lenin endorsed > nationalisation unless comrades have a particular reference where this was > premised. Engage us on the subject matter. To this end, I submit that the > state should not nationalise the mines. Rather call for the state to > establish a mining company to carry out its political mandates in a > sustainable manner. > > Comradely > Morgan Phaahla > Ekurhuleni > > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - > Joe Slovo > > --- On *Fri, 11/27/09, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>* wrote: > > > From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Julius and Floyd Must Be Recalled Enough is > Enough > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 5:22 AM > > > [image: CU emblem] > > Dear fellow-students, > > Since Comrades want to call themselves Marxists, and Cde Segage wants > documentation, it must be a good idea to start with Karl Marx, I suppose. > > If you search in Google like this: > > *nationalise site:http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/* > > > You will get a list of pages containing all the instances of the words > “nationalise” and “nationalisation” that occur in all the works of both Marx > and Engels, i.e from the 1840s to the 1890s, including about 50 major works > and hundreds of other items, large and small. > > The number of mentions is precisely *two*, of “nationalisation”. If you > change to the American spelling (“nationalize”) you get another, different > two. Three of the total of four instances are about land, and the fourth is > about “nationalization” in a different, now-unfamiliar sense of generalising > something across the country. > > So, people, to be honest, Karl Marx was not terribly interested in > nationalisation! > > If you do the same in Google for Lenin, like this: > > *nationalise site:http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/* > > > you get 20 examples, from about 30 years of writing (1890s to 1920s) in > 4,170 documents including all of Lenin’s books. > > Here is one of them, from “Left-Wing Childishness<http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/may/09.htm>” > (1918): > > > “Dear ‘Left Communists’, how determined they are, but how little thinking > they display. What do they mean by pursuing “a most determined policy of > socialisation"? > > “One may or may not be determined on the question of nationalisation or > confiscation, but the whole point is that even the greatest possible > “determination” in the world is not enough to pass from nationalisation and > confiscation to socialisation. The misfortune of our “Lefts” is that by > their naïve, childish combination of the words “most determined policy of > socialisation” they reveal their utter failure to understand the crux of the > question, the crux of the “present” situation. The misfortune of our “Lefts” > is that they have missed the very essence of the “present situation”, the > transition from confiscation (the carrying out of which requires above all > determination in a politician) to socialisation (the carrying out of which > requires a *different* quality in the revolutionary). > > “Yesterday, the main task of the moment was, as determinedly as possible, > to nationalise, confiscate, beat down and crush the bourgeoisie, and put > down sabotage. Today, only a blind man could fail to see that we have > nationalised, confiscated, beaten down and put down more *than we have had > time to count*. The difference between socialisation and simple > confiscation is that confiscation can be carried out by “determination” > alone, without the ability to calculate and distribute properly, *whereas > socialisation cannot be brought about without this ability.”* > > > The above quotation from Lenin is particularly useful because it > (correctly, of course) places “socialisation” in a higher, more serious > position than mere “nationalisation”. > > The other 19 quotations that the search of Lenin throws up are also of > interest but I will not go through them all. Others can share that task, > perhaps. > > Another time-saver that can be used when you get to the actual document is > the browser’s “*Find in page*” facility, which will take you to each > instance of the actual word. > > [Please note these ways and means, comrades. If you ever need to find an > apt quotation, this is one way you can do it. People will be amazed by your > detailed knowledge of the classics!] > > My own personal opinion about nationalisation is that, as always, it is a > question of the state. In a bourgeois dictatorship, under a bourgeois state, > nationalisation will only attach the nationalised enterprise to the > bourgeois state, and hence to the bourgeoisie. This has been very obvious to > anyone who has lived in “social-democratic” countries, such as Britain . > Historically, nationalisation has typically been a bourgeois act, by the > bourgeoisie and for the bourgeoisie. > > In South Africa the bourgeoisie is still in the ascendancy. For as long as > that remains the case, nationalisation *simpliciter* will have to serve > the interests of the bourgeoisie. > > It is the degree of socialisation that is crucial, and socialisation is a > more difficult, and not an automatically-answered question. > > VC > > > > > Ranney Segage wrote: > > NB: This email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE > > which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/email_legalnotice > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Comrades > > I think everyone will agree with comrade Sabelo . He has provided terms of reference in terms of how and what we need to look at when entering into this debate . > > Comrade Sabelo I propose that we therefore need to structure the debate since you have provided terms of reference . We shall then have to identify some documentation on the subject matter . > > > > Yours for Socialism > > > > Ranney Jomo Segage > > Credit and Revenue Management > > Tel : 013 6934158 > > Fax : 013 6934186 > > Pax : 82214158 > > Cell : 0824710085 > > > > The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics as a logical theory > > > > > > > > sabelo gina <[email protected]> <http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> 2009/11/27 10:33 AM >>> > > > Comrades, > > > > I meant "commend" Jeremy Cronin, sorry for the wrong spelling! > > > > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . 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