Well cadre Domza, I think we also need to nationalize your laptop, your knowledge in ITC and further nationalize the same BMW driven by cadre Blade if that the logic, I am not in defense of either Malema nor any corrupt activity that he may or not be involved in.
I also do not support his show-off dispensary and his fellow cronies, but my view is making a mockery of a debate that need us as communist to give clear perspective rather than just plain insults.. It is also realistic that structures of the ANC YL have never been given a fair chance to engage in the debate... It is further disappointing for you cadre Domza to deteriorate to that level, but it never seize to amaze me as an outrageous fundamentalist who will by all time forget principles to personality. It is irrelevant for you trying to give an impression that the party its members are out for Julius, I was also thought not to play the man but the Ball. Prescription: Read document called how to be a good communist. ________________________________ From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 3:00:31 PM Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Malema's millions Dear Cde Tsembeyi, What do you think is the difference between the nationalisation of a mine and the nationalisation of a watch? I would like to know. While you are about it, please can you explain what is the difference between the nationalisation of a mine and the nationalisation of any other "wealthy and entrepreneurial" business that you can think of? Allow me to tell you what I was previously taught on this latter question. I was taught that "South Africa's Mineral Resources" like those of all other countries, have no value at all unless and until they are dug out of the ground by workers, in the country, meaning in South Africa in this case. It is the workers who add all the value, and only the workers. You may prefer the slogan: "Expropriate the expropriators!" You may crave a Dictatorship of the Proletariat. All that is fine and can be argued and supported with scholarly research, reason and logic. The spectacle of a man wearing a R250,000 watch, with clothes and shoes and car et cetera to match, demanding the nationalisation of mines only, strictly mines, in the name of the workers and the poor is not a joke, or else it is a (sick) joke, depending on your mood and sense of humour. If any arbitrary thing can be "nationalised", without any perspective of class revolution, then a watch can also be nationalised, comrade. The day that the ANC YL starts supporting the general expropriation of the expropriators on behalf of the working class, will be the day that its leaders will have to cease from boasting of their "wealth and entrepreneurship", which mean nothing more or less than their determination to be bourgeois. All their calls for nationalisation are simple opportunism and demagogy. Show me that it is not so, if you can, Cde Tsembeyi! VC Sithembewena tsembeyi wrote: > >I have been reading with contempt, disgust, pain and >embarrassment how deteriorated comrades have become, well critical >debates have triggered factionalism and personification of politics and >I felt ashamed to be from the same organization as most of you who >have missed a clear point of engaging with principles. >>Though I will forever pride in the teachings of the like zabo >Tshonyane, OR and Bra-Joe, I do not support ither of your views to >prositute each other without given pure ideological content in this >whole debate, I might have missed a point but for anyone who claims to >be a resolute leader of the working class, should find it senseless to >allude or suggest that we nationalize Malema's watch, meaning to him >the debate of Nationalization is nothing but a joke, however content is >no more a fact for many of you. > >>I am also disappointed by comrade Kupa or the YL in Gauteng if that is >the official position, well in my region we have not discussed that >Bull S****, Secondly Kupa finds space to parachute masterial positions >within the debate and allude with insults that comrade Mbaks is >contesting an un-dated congress, A reminder only members, structures of >the ANC in good standing will pronounce in terms of its leadership when >the relevant time come, what is more fundamentally a joke with these >comrades they have already pronounced with the ANC 2012 conference, >while the YL in regions is currently struggling to go to its own >conferences, pending also is provincial conferences and of which Kupa's >province is due to go to conference in no time and this may not be >obvious cause some may have interest too and may not come back, >thirdly the National Conference of the YL is before the national >conference pf the ANC and it is not given that Malema will still be the >President of the YL by then, (not unless the same Mangaung scenario is >prepared). > >>Lastly I do not find any reason for character assassination, there are >many relevant debates and issues that we can focus on rather than the >witch hunt amongst cadres... Equally is Malema responsible for this >public out break... when given a chance to clarify all this, for him to >seek and lobby support from us ordinary members of the YL and the >entire MDM structures... > >>Most important...Like pre-Polokwane the ANC and broadly its membership >made a blunder focusing on an individual towards the our conference and >this has ultimatly made him a Godly member of the ANC and for him to be >individualistically apologetic with what we have resoluted upon. Look >what had he have to say on the issue of Labor Brokering. > >>So I plead to fellow cadres that we find proper means of discussing >some of these issues and avoid bringing Liabilities in the movement to >lead us and for us to forever protect them when they have actually made >a blander in all spheres > > > > ________________________________ From: >Loselo Segwe <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Cc: David van Wyk ><[email protected]>; [email protected]; Nareadi >Molabe <[email protected]> >Sent: Mon, February >22, 2010 12:44:03 PM >Subject: Re: [YCLSA >Discussion] Malema's millions > > >Cdes. > >Reading articles and listening to the debates on the electronic >media as well as through engagements with Comrades, I failed to hear >anyone saying Cdes. should not be wealthy and entrepreneurial. The >issues at stake is whether, as a society, we want allow an entrenchment >of the current practice where (not only Malema and yellow communist), >build their wealth on the basis of parasitic relationship with the >state? > >The second issue is the ethical correctness (whether Western - >Imperial definition or whatever definition) of ethics. We all know, or >choose to ignore the fact that some of our Cdes. have access to these >tenders, not through their entrepreneurial skills or any technical >skill, but through their political connections and heavy-handedness >with which they pressurise municipal officials to bend the rules in >favour of their facilitating companies (they are facilitating due to >the fact that they do no perform the actual work) but rather outsource >the tender performance delivery to third parties who either deliver >sub-standard work or their lead-times are what inspires service >delivery protests around the country. > >Cdes, all South Africans are entitled to entrepreneurial >aspirations, including our politicians. The only limitation I know of >is where one might, by association with the state tender processes, be >viewed or perceived to have conflict of interest. Julius appears, on >the surface, to be far from tender processes and resultant decision >making. The reality of the matter is that political position in South >Africa determines business influence. There are many instances where >such has happened and is happening. It cannot be defended or justified. > >Thirdly, my view is that we all need to encourage and incubate >entrepreneurial spirit amongst Comrades, for two or more reasons, one >is to grow our economy through new enterprise, innovation, skills >development and job creation. Another critical reason why we should >encourage and instill entrepreneurial spirit, also related to the >first, is to wean Cdes from State Deployment Dependency Syndrome >(SDDS). This syndrome poses a very dangerous threat to our revolution. >Many of our cadres of our broader movement have just given up in >respect to self-reliance, relevant skills acquisition, required work >ethics and respect for due processes. Instead cadres are queuing for >deployment, if it does not come as soon as required or expected, cadres >start discrediting incumbents, destabilising service delivery >institutions and finally discrediting our political systems, which have >been inspired by the ideal for equality, equity and justice. > >I believe, therefore, that ignoring real issues such as our >revolutionary ethics and morality, the need to transform the economy >(crass material acquisition and state parasitism are not synonymous >with economic transformation), our collective social responsibilities >as leaders and followers, the core objectives of the revolution and the >need for transparent and effective governance, we are all sacrificing >our revolution at the alter of pseudo entrepreneurship and half-hearted >economic transformation. > >Cecil John Rhodes and others were pure thieves and mercenaries, >they cannot therefore be used for moral campus or as points of >reference. They plundered, brought misery and wars to our lands, they >robbed the poor, and plainly they served imperialist interests with >distinctions. For to use them as reference points is illogical and >irresponsible. > >Debating issues in this manner surely is infantile and closes >out alternative views and thinking. Let us not just protect our own >comrades and defend practices which are clearly sowing discontent >amongst our people. True revolutionaries engage, debate and open spaces >for dialogues. They respect and learn from divergent views, enrich >their understanding of the revolution, synthesize different view-points >and respond accurately to the challenges facing and likely to impede >the revolution. > > >My yellow communist thoughts. > >Loselo > > > >> >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:20 AM, MOSES >ABDULLAH PHIRI <[email protected]> >wrote: > >Discussion >> >>>>Comrades. >> >>>>I enjoy much the discussions that are much thrown to this forum. >> >>>>Robustly discussed, sometimes they are very fresh and raw, true or >>unsubstantiated. Some are propaganda engineered or engagement intended. >> >>>>The Malame Millions is a good story, but have thought once or so how >>did Cecil John Rhodes, Oppenheimer have made their Millions in Africa: >>either hook or crook. >> >>>>Malema and others who are in our leadership must not die poor when we >>have the wealth under our feet. >> >>>>Whom do yo think better to have such wealth besides him? >>>>Why do you work up every morning to toil without the intention of not >>having wealth? >> >>>>Come on Comrades, give me something sound to debate politically. The >>freedom charter explains what was the struggle intended for. If you do >>not beleive in the colours of the ANC flag please lets educate ourselves >> >>>>Cheers and regards. >> >>>>Abdullah Phiri >> >> >>>>-- >>>>You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>Please POST your comments to [email protected] >>or reply to >>>>this message. >>You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum >>for different delivery >>options, pages, files and membership. >>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] >>>>>>. You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't >>have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send >>an e-mail to this address (repeat): >>[email protected] >>. >> > > >>-- >>Loselo Segwe > >>Mobile: +27766383723 >>-- >>You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >to this message. >>You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum >for different delivery >>options, pages, files and membership. >>To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >[email protected] . You don't have to put >anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >(repeat): [email protected] . > >>-- >>You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >to this message. >>You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum >for different delivery >>options, pages, files and membership. >>To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >[email protected] . You don't have to put >anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >(repeat): [email protected] . > > ________________________________ > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2702 - Release Date: 02/21/10 >21:34:00 > > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. 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