Thank you for your response and yes, I do understand you. You see VC, I've learned many things from older Cdes, including yourself, which paved my way to reading and understanding Marx. I want to thank you for the input and intervention you've been making, I value it. Amongst my intervention with you and other like-minded lefties, the things I've learned is to be observant, be mindful of our surroundings and to develop independent thinking - that things happens in contradictions, to be able to follow developments in these contradictions and make informed conclussions.
To that effect, what might be right and correct to you, might not necessarily be right and correct to others. I've been following the papers and electronic media and they too have confirmed what I had thought. That only certain people has discredited the document and I'm not suprised that it is "them". You see, I don't through away rubbish, I read it. In fact; what "other people" deem as rubbish and suggest that it should not be read as it is divisive, I read it and make my own layman' conclussions. That's what Trosky has taught me, you should know where I'm getting at, I suppose. You should be knowing better that because the document is out in the public, then we should do justice to it, read it and go in different directions and come to an understanding or a central point, or agree to disagree, or compromise... There are facts and there are truths and there is no magician who can tell the truth from fiction at first sight, as you suggest I am. I have never, in my input on the matter, suggested any truths - maybe you have sensed some truth on what I have indicated, I'll take the credit if you are really giving me one. I have read the document, thoroughly nogal, you are making a big mistake in suggesting that it's false. This document landed to certain people where because of what it contained, would influence the decision or would not make justice to the COSATU special meeting of the 14 August 2013 hence there was intentions and appeal not to have that meeting. Cde Vavi alleges that Cde Sdumo circulated this document, Cde Sdumo denies having done that. You most certainly believe that Cde Vavi publicised it. To me it doesn't matter where this document is coming from, fact is it's out in the public domain. My take on Cde Vavi's saga is that he should be disciplined according to COSATU internal disciplinary processes, problem is if there are external forces that has been rallying in distroying a person and using state organ, then it's a matter to be looked at. Hence Cde Vavi's lawyers has written to the Minister of Intelligence to establish "truths and/or facts" behind the being of this document. I must commend you for being the originator and moderator of this forum, but that doesn't give you the right to supress other people's opinions because by the way of what you are indicating, you'll not allow people like me to challenge your opinions and your believes and as such you might cut me out of the chain. I am not insulting or deamining anyone here, I am only raising an opinion or a view, atleast from my understanding - and this is what Maxism is teaching us, and you have been advocating and continuing to to teach it on the CU. As I indicated above, I respect you, it's only few people who teaches Marx Philosophy and who want to see people being liberated on all aspects of life and understanding how society has come to being. Please allow us to participate and make our own viewpoints to be heared, just like we accept and value your viewpoints. I will not tell you that you are wrong and will not even suggest that my opinions are right, correct and true. I can only try to convince you and any other person to consider the angle at which I base my arguments. Battle of ideas is the important platform where people like me, who are still learning, come to knwo and understand things. Only where a decusion has to be made is then we'll consider Democratic Centralism where one will lobby for his ideas and/or opinions to be taken and if there are conflicting motions, minority has to accept and follow majority views. In conclussion, I will not play you or anybody here and infact, that thing doesn't even click on my vocabulary. Misinformation has to be tackled as such. Lebese On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>wrote: > > Well, fine, > > But if you had been following the papers and electronic media, you might > have noticed several things that confirm what I had thought, and some that > go further to discredit this "document" even more. > > One of them is the number of people who have said that there is some truth > mixed in with the rest, meaning that the rest is not truth but is either > outright lies, or else what people have widely called "rubbish". And this > is what I mean by the document sending people in different directions. You > may have, but most of us do not have, a magic way of telling truth from > fiction at first sight. Hence documents that are a big stew of truth and > falsehood are very divisive. I hope you understand me, this time. > > I don't like to contribute in any way to divisiveness, so, since I am the > originator and still a moderator of this forum, I do intend to make that > clear at all times. > > Before I conclude, let me also point out to you the report, posted here > yesterday, that said this "document" has been hanging around for two > months, at least, and that the one who spread it was Zwelinzima Vavi, > himself. > > I don't want you to be "played" by anybody on this forum or outside of it. > More than that, I don't want the forum to be "played" by anyone, whether > they are subscribers, or tweeters, or holders of press conferences. > > Disinformation needs to be named as such. > > VC > > > > > > > On 20 August 2013 08:03, Mpho Lebese <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear VC >> >> I have tried not to respond to you but ntho e ya nja and had to throw it >> out. >> >> The fact is that this document got to you and in my opinion, let anyone >> have it, read it and make an opinion or view of his/her own; just like you >> have made yours. You might perhaps have "motives" behind your wish not to >> have this document circulated. Or perhaps you were running in different >> directions yourself!! Or perhaps you are among the custodians of our >> Country's intelligence!! >> >> In this chain, we are not everybody as you mean and going further >> suggesting that this document will "send us dashing in different directions >> like ants" and as such, I'm not really impressed with that >> characterisation. It's almost as if you are insulting our intelligence. >> >> Lebese >> >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Dominic Tweedie < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> If the man is about to be pinned down as a rapist, then he would rather >>> be called a spy. >>> >>> This kind of stuff is designed to send everybody dashing in different >>> directions like ants in a broken ant's nest. >>> >>> Look at what it is *not*: >>> >>> It is not politics. >>> >>> It is not about sexual harassment. >>> >>> It is not about organisation. >>> >>> In my opinion, whatever your motives may be, if you are passing on this >>> document, you are not assisting. >>> >>> This document is put together with an intention to destabilise, and in >>> this moment what is required is stabilisation. >>> >>> >>> VC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 16 August 2013 20:36, Mahlodi Ronald Maela <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. 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