On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:42 -0500 Derick Centeno wrote: > On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100 > Robert Spykerman <robert.spyker...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno <dcent...@ydl.net> > > wrote: ...snip... > > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet" other > > > PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program using YDL on > > > various hardware systems. There's a lot a good people there who > > > can help you move forward a lot faster than you going it solo. > > > > I completely agree. There are not many online forums for YDL - I > > believe this mailing list and the YDL board > > http://www.yellowdog-board.com/ are the only two specific ones. > > > > I am new to YDL too myself. I suspect not many people use it very much > > these days if traffic in these lists or the YDL board is anything to > > go by, at least relative to the traffic you can see on the ubuntu > > boards. > > > > You are quite right Robert, the traffic regarding PowerPC programming > has changed quite a bit over the years. There had been a great deal of > traffic here when Apple incorporated the PowerPC in it's computer > hardware. When Apple switched to Intel there were many changes in > the traffic here and then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony developed game > systems which incorporated not only the most advanced PowerPC system > available to date (the Cell) but the most intensively powerful CPU > available to consumers. Out of all these companies however only Sony > allowed an option which allowed users to use and run YDL on their PS3s > thereby turning what had been merely a game computer into the > equivalent of a supercomputer available to forward looking consumers. > > Of course, not everyone who purchased the PS3 would be interested in > hi-tech programming on the Cell but that potential was available as > long as Sony allowed the OtherOS option to exist. With the OtherOS > option all members of the family could not only play games but explore > advanced technical areas ranging from introductory to advanced > programming concepts of nearly every level of endeavor. The only > comparison I can think of is imagining families with the PS3 being > awarded a free perpetual opportunity to attend the most advanced > computer labs at MIT or Stanford or Yale for their own personal > exploration and use. The Cell is that flexible.
I hadn't heard that the CELL was end-of-lifed. I guess it's true. But any idea why? Who killed the Cell/BE? Toshiba owns the chip fab? Have they announced anything? I see the Zego vanished. What about the blades based on Cell/BE? Collectivism at work? Too much compute power for the citizen? > > However for various reasons Sony closed that potential when the Slim > version of the PS3 was released while they almost simultaneously > announced that no further PS3s would be produced with the OtherOS > option which meant that only the previous generation PS3s with the > OtherOS option would continue to be sold until the inventory was > exhausted. This meant that although there would continue to be persons > who ran YDL on PS3s that number would be finite and would not include > anyone who purchased the PS3 Slim forward. > > Fixstars which produces YDL, runs on many PowerPC systems however fewer > of these available systems exist at a price which consumers normally > purchase between $200-$500. Fixstar's PowerStation for instance can be > had for $1000+ and if one wants the Cell included with that there > exists a PCI card which one can purchase fits into the PowerStation > beginning at $6,000+. There will be lovers of hi-tech and > professionals involved in programming advanced systems who will use YDL, > YDEL, etc. which run on such PowerPC technologies which may be or > become available but this is no longer the "family" or "consumer" > priced systems which people have considered as reasonably affordable > over during the years Apple or Sony sold their systems which means as > well that fewer people will have experience with advanced computers. > > Intel technology is popular and common, but it is not based on > radically new thinking as regards computer architecture. Intel rather > is very astute in utilizing old architectures in radically new ways. > As inventive as such approaches are in my thinking it is akin to > considering how many ways a paper clip can bend. > > In fact, this is exactly why the modern market has developed into the > weird reality we find ourselves in where Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony > are vendors who each run the Cell in their own very powerful computing > game systems but each system is "locked" in the sense that consumers > cannot use Linux to utilize the flexibility of the Cell on any of > these systems for themselves or their families. This is great for > producing strictly advanced gaming computers however it is terrible for > those who want to use those same computers as working systems or family > based learning and research systems which run independently designed > projects. In fact, families and individuals who purchase the Xbox, Wii > and PS3 Slim now have to also purchase other computers as their > work/research stations at home. The consumer is paying very much more > than twice over all these purchases. > > A range of technical details exploring various views exists within the > YDL Board for those who are interested in researching the topic. > > > As much as I hate saying this, you may want to check out Ubuntu as an > > alternative for a beginner for the following reason - there appear to > > be more distro specific 'current' books on the shelves of local > > bookshops, and at a brief glance, their forums appear to be more > > active. No doubt some questions and issues you will have will be ps3 > > specific but they have a forum for that too. People say ubuntu gnome > > or kde (kubuntu) is a big of a memory hog so some say xubuntu (xfce > > desktop) is possibly the best variant to install on the ps3. > > > Ubuntu is a variant of Debian Linux. Oddly enough however Ubuntu > decided to cease officially supporting PowerPC systems quite sometime > ago which means that help is entirely provided as it is by the > "community" which really means whoever cares to do so which also means > whenever someone has the opportunity to get to it. This is a really > terrible development for beginners who need as much help as possible > from professionals who are at the top of their game. Read more here: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC > > I have participated on this list long enough to remember a good number > of people who not only were encouraging others to switch to Ubuntu but > doing everything possible to "pull" people over there. When Ubuntu > made their choice those people who had left here either had to switch > to Intel Linux or accept Ubuntu's terms. I'm not aware of those who > came back to participate on the YDL lists or the YDL Board again. It > was really pretty sad all the way around -- all that energy and > enthusiasm wasted. > > Oddly enough however professional support remains with Debian Linux > itself although they always primarily supported x86 or Intel based > Linux. See here: http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/index.en.html > > The professionals who developed YDL, Terra Soft Solutions (TSS), have > always been at the top of the PowerPC development environment. In the > past, this was nearly the exclusive achievement of TSS; it may not be > possible for any company to exclusively develop for one computer > architecture any longer -- we will have to see how Fixstars (who > inherited YDL from TSS) chooses to move in the current environment which > exists. > > Regardless what they do however the marketplace as far as the normal > user is concerned is extremely expensive given what has taken place. > > In many ways, the deal regarding the old PS3s remains a fast > disappearing opportunity which would be wise to acquire as quickly as > possible because once it is gone, that is pretty much it unless another > company finds a means to re-introduce the Cell or another PowerPC > system as something other than a game or cellphone computer. > > May everyone have a wonderful celebration of these holidays and New > Year. > > > ========= > > Refranes/Popular sayings: > The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga. > There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom. _______________________________________________ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try '<keywords> site:us.fixstars.com'