Chris, Exactly how I think of them. Useful in the beginning (hence the rewritting of them by TNH), but there comes a time when the precepts jump off the book and are simply lived quite naturally
Mike ________________________________ implyFrom: ChrisAustinLane <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 6:52:43 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Certainly precepts do no good in the mind. Only when they are our flesh and bones are they precepts. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Mar 30, 2011, at 14:21, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: Mayka, > >>Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as >>it >>is. > >Taken to the ultimate conclusion being that we don't need *any* of the >precepts >in mind to "experience reality as it is". > >Mike > > > > ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 4:52:54 >Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > >Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as it >is. > >At the same time Steve also has a point. Living philosophies may embrace in >compassion the whole universe. > > >Mayka > >--- On Wed, 30/3/11, SteveW <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: SteveW <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 17:52 >> >> >> >> >> >>--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> I fundamentally disagree. >>> >>> Buddhism, as well as Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, and all other religions I >>> know >>>about are based on the essense of zen. They are all, including Buddhism, >>>just >>>layers that have been built up around zen and serve to occlude the essense >>>of >>>zen to varying extents. I will say that Buddhism has the least occluding >>>layers >>>of the religions I have read about, but it still has a lot. >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>Hi Bill! In my opinion, there are two aspects to the human phenomenon of >>religion. One aspect is the evolved religios which binds society together in >>a >>shared identity. This is just an evolved trait that is useful from the >>view-point of group selection. The other aspect is the awakened insight into >>Suchness. But some religions as they exist now are more effective vehicles >>for >>encouraging awakened insight into Suchness than others. Within each of the >>Big >>Three Abrahamic traditions, there have arisen minority mystical movements >>that >>are a spontaneous expression of Enlightened Mind, but they have always been >>regarded as heretical. Even the most literal-minded Pureland Buddhist >>realizes >>that the ultimate goal is awakening. They just want to go to Buddhist Heaven >>where they imagine that awakening will be easier. But they still understand >>that >>ultimately it is more than just going to Heaven. And so, as you yourself >>note, >>Buddhism has the least occluding layers. The average Christian would not >>regard >>Meister Eckhart as being a real Christian. >>Steve >> >> >
