Mike: I'm afraid but I live in an organic body continuously changing and exposed to many things. I'm aware of that. if we didn't live in an organic body then we could easily dwell in the universal heart as there wouldn't be any obstacles for doing so. Mindfulness helps me to live in the present moment in awareness without separation from what is the universal heart and what is the daily day living in an organic body, with other organic bodies in form of humans, animals, plants, minerals....Through mindfulness I can easily cut through the illusion of a separated self because what I touch is sometimes interbeing, sometimes just whatever is there arising including my own ignorance. Mindfulness is not the only vehicle, tool, way, practice taking one to the heart of reality. Sitting down or zazen either. There are many of them. It seems as Nisargadata Maharajs has his own way. However, there has been many moments in my life in which no practice of any kind has been involved and still I could wave in togetherness with the wave of life. Is this one last what you meant? Dwelling in togetherness in the tic-tac beating heart of the universe. Mayka --- On Sun, 3/4/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote:
From: mike brown <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 3 April, 2011, 11:46 Mayka, To be honest, I don't think we are talking about the same thing simply known by another name. What you describe about mindfulness below is 100% correct, but doesn't describe the full story. I think that comment (from the Nisargadatta maharaj video) says it all. "What is it that never changes? Experience that directly." Now, what you describe below admits that at times (most of the time?) we're simply 'not there' and employ mindfulness to "bring the body and mind together." This means we're constantly changing from one state (mindlessness) to another (mindfulness). By definition,this cannot be the unborn, undying Supreme Reality. When you're not being mindful and are "lost in your thoughts", have you simply vanished and ceased to be? No. There is still an awareness of being (I Amness) - this is not the same as mindfulness because it IS what never changes. Where mindfulness comes in is in the cultivation of this awareness and is never ending. By the way, IMO this where Chris's quote about 'glimpsing the Supreme Reality is still yet not Awakening' applies. Mike rom: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 3 April, 2011 18:42:51 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mike: Just one think to be pointed out from this insightful post of yours that Siska has brought back: The activity of bringing the mind back to the present moment is also called mindfulness. You may have paid already attention in yourself that often while walking, doing different activities. The body is in one place and the mind is lost in thoughts in another place. The body and the mind at those moments are not in togetherness, they are separated. Mindfulness brings the body and mind together at those moments. There are many different vehicles to be in contact with, find the heart of reality. Mine is the one of mindfulness. Not necessarily anyone else. As ED pointed out some time ago; "Different strokes for different people" Enjoy your Sunday Mayka --- On Sat, 2/4/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 2 April, 2011, 14:24 Hi Mike, Like like like :-) siska From: mike brown <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:45:28 +0100 (BST) To: <[email protected]> ReplyTo: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mayka, Yes, that would be an "extraordinary thought"!! It's not the living in the present moment that's the problem, it's the belief that there are moments we're not *always* living in the now (i.e "Damn, I was caught up in my thoughts for a while there. Better start being mindful and get back into living in the now." This is wrong thinking. We're always living in the now - it's never not now. Mindfulness doesn't "take" us there. As Alan Watts said, 'Where ever you go - there you are." Mike From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 1 April, 2011 7:08:42 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mike; How it comes that living the present moment in awareness could become a double edged sword?. It never crossed my mind thinking "I've got mindfulness, yup-iii!", what an extraordinary thought!. However, I admit that I only practise diligent mindfulness most of times when I'm in my last legs. A bit like the Christians praying to God when they want something, with the difference that here the miracle is operated by oneself work. Well, at least I found the door and also know how to open it. Are there more doors than this?. Mayka --- On Thu, 31/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: From: mike brown <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 22:31 Mayka, We just have to be careful with mindfulness - it's very much a double-edged sword in that it can be the catalyst for awakening to reality, but it can also make us think we've 'got it' when in fact it's nothing but our ego taking a very subtle rest. Also, we need to get past the way we think of mindfulness. In the beginning we tend to find ourselves consciously employing it at specific times. "Right, I've done the tidying up, taken a shower and washed the dishes. Now I'm going to take the dog out and really focus on what I'm doing, feel the wind on my face, not zone out and follow any thoughts and really be here" All well and good. But what we've also done there, by definition, is to separate ourselves between not being mindfull and being mindful which in turn also reinforces the sense of separateness from our intrinsic awareness of Budhha. In simple terms, there is an awareness that is unborn and undying right now which in Vedanta is expressed as 'I Am'. That awareness is right there with you when you're washing the dishes and putting out the rubbish and is there prior to just when you think, "Now I'm going to practice mindfulness" and it's there when you stop being mindful. Mike From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 7:39:29 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mike: That's right Mike. However, previous indications in the map and tools were most useful to experience reality as it is, and not as we imagine it to be. Mayka --- On Wed, 30/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: From: mike brown <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 22:21 Mayka, >Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as it >is. Taken to the ultimate conclusion being that we don't need *any* of the precepts in mind to "experience reality as it is". Mike From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 4:52:54 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as it is. At the same time Steve also has a point. Living philosophies may embrace in compassion the whole universe. Mayka --- On Wed, 30/3/11, SteveW <[email protected]> wrote: From: SteveW <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 17:52 --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Steve, > > I fundamentally disagree. > > Buddhism, as well as Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, and all other religions I > know about are based on the essense of zen. They are all, including Buddhism, > just layers that have been built up around zen and serve to occlude the > essense of zen to varying extents. I will say that Buddhism has the least > occluding layers of the religions I have read about, but it still has a lot. > > ...Bill! > Hi Bill! In my opinion, there are two aspects to the human phenomenon of religion. One aspect is the evolved religios which binds society together in a shared identity. This is just an evolved trait that is useful from the view-point of group selection. The other aspect is the awakened insight into Suchness. But some religions as they exist now are more effective vehicles for encouraging awakened insight into Suchness than others. Within each of the Big Three Abrahamic traditions, there have arisen minority mystical movements that are a spontaneous expression of Enlightened Mind, but they have always been regarded as heretical. Even the most literal-minded Pureland Buddhist realizes that the ultimate goal is awakening. They just want to go to Buddhist Heaven where they imagine that awakening will be easier. But they still understand that ultimately it is more than just going to Heaven. And so, as you yourself note, Buddhism has the least occluding layers. The average Christian would not regard Meister Eckhart as being a real Christian. Steve
