There is no 'thing' which is not born and does not die. No it. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
On Apr 3, 2011, at 3:46, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Mayka, > > To be honest, I don't think we are talking about the same thing simply known > by another name. What you describe about mindfulness below is 100% correct, > but doesn't describe the full story. I think that comment (from the > Nisargadatta maharaj video) says it all. "What is it that never changes? > Experience that directly." Now, what you describe below admits that at times > (most of the time?) we're simply 'not there' and employ mindfulness to "bring > the body and mind together." This means we're constantly changing from one > state (mindlessness) to another (mindfulness). By definition,this cannot be > the unborn, undying Supreme Reality. When you're not being mindful and are > "lost in your thoughts", have you simply vanished and ceased to be? No. There > is still an awareness of being (I Amness) - this is not the same as > mindfulness because it IS what never changes. Where mindfulness comes in is > in the cultivation of this awareness and is never ending. By the way, IMO > this where Chris's quote about 'glimpsing the Supreme Reality is still yet > not Awakening' applies. > > Mike > rom: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, 3 April, 2011 18:42:51 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > Mike: > > Just one think to be pointed out from this insightful post of yours that > Siska has brought back: > > The activity of bringing the mind back to the present moment is also called > mindfulness. You may have paid already attention in yourself that often while > walking, doing different activities. The body is in one place and the mind > is lost in thoughts in another place. The body and the mind at those moments > are not in togetherness, they are separated. Mindfulness brings the body and > mind together at those moments. > > There are many different vehicles to be in contact with, find the heart of > reality. Mine is the one of mindfulness. Not necessarily anyone else. > > As ED pointed out some time ago; "Different strokes for different people" > > Enjoy your Sunday > Mayka > > > --- On Sat, 2/4/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 2 April, 2011, 14:24 > > > Hi Mike, > > Like like like > > :-) > siska > From: mike brown <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:45:28 +0100 (BST) > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > > Mayka, > > Yes, that would be an "extraordinary thought"!! It's not the living in the > present moment that's the problem, it's the belief that there are moments > we're not *always* living in the now (i.e "Damn, I was caught up in my > thoughts for a while there. Better start being mindful and get back into > living in the now." This is wrong thinking. We're always living in the now - > it's never not now. Mindfulness doesn't "take" us there. As Alan Watts said, > 'Where ever you go - there you are." > > Mike > > From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 1 April, 2011 7:08:42 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > > Mike; > > How it comes that living the present moment in awareness could become a > double edged sword?. It never crossed my mind thinking "I've got > mindfulness, yup-iii!", what an extraordinary thought!. > > However, I admit that I only practise diligent mindfulness most of times > when I'm in my last legs. A bit like the Christians praying to God when they > want something, with the difference that here the miracle is operated by > oneself work. Well, at least I found the door and also know how to open it. > Are there more doors than this?. > > Mayka > > > --- On Thu, 31/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: mike brown <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 22:31 > > > Mayka, > > We just have to be careful with mindfulness - it's very much a double-edged > sword in that it can be the catalyst for awakening to reality, but it can > also make us think we've 'got it' when in fact it's nothing but our ego > taking a very subtle rest. Also, we need to get past the way we think of > mindfulness. In the beginning we tend to find ourselves consciously employing > it at specific times. "Right, I've done the tidying up, taken a shower and > washed the dishes. Now I'm going to take the dog out and really focus on what > I'm doing, feel the wind on my face, not zone out and follow any thoughts and > really be here" All well and good. But what we've also done there, by > definition, is to separate ourselves between not being mindfull and being > mindful which in turn also reinforces the sense of separateness from our > intrinsic awareness of Budhha. In simple terms, there is an awareness that is > unborn and undying right now which in Vedanta is expressed as 'I Am'. That > awareness is right there with you when you're washing the dishes and putting > out the rubbish and is there prior to just when you think, "Now I'm going to > practice mindfulness" and it's there when you stop being mindful. > > Mike > > From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 7:39:29 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > > Mike: > > That's right Mike. However, previous indications in the map and tools were > most useful to experience reality as it is, and not as we imagine it to be. > > Mayka > > > --- On Wed, 30/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: mike brown <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 22:21 > > > Mayka, > > >Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as > >it is. > > Taken to the ultimate conclusion being that we don't need *any* of the > precepts in mind to "experience reality as it is". > > Mike > > From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 4:52:54 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > > Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as > it is. > > At the same time Steve also has a point. Living philosophies may embrace in > compassion the whole universe. > > Mayka > > --- On Wed, 30/3/11, SteveW <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: SteveW <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 17:52 > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > > > I fundamentally disagree. > > > > Buddhism, as well as Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, and all other religions I > > know about are based on the essense of zen. They are all, including > > Buddhism, just layers that have been built up around zen and serve to > > occlude the essense of zen to varying extents. I will say that Buddhism has > > the least occluding layers of the religions I have read about, but it still > > has a lot. > > > > ...Bill! > > > Hi Bill! In my opinion, there are two aspects to the human phenomenon of > religion. One aspect is the evolved religios which binds society together in > a shared identity. This is just an evolved trait that is useful from the > view-point of group selection. The other aspect is the awakened insight into > Suchness. But some religions as they exist now are more effective vehicles > for encouraging awakened insight into Suchness than others. Within each of > the Big Three Abrahamic traditions, there have arisen minority mystical > movements that are a spontaneous expression of Enlightened Mind, but they > have always been regarded as heretical. Even the most literal-minded Pureland > Buddhist realizes that the ultimate goal is awakening. They just want to go > to Buddhist Heaven where they imagine that awakening will be easier. But they > still understand that ultimately it is more than just going to Heaven. And > so, as you yourself note, Buddhism has the least occluding layers. The > average Christian would not regard Meister Eckhart as being a real Christian. > Steve > > > > > > > ncnBzcElkAzE3MDc1ODkwMTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzEzMDE4Mjc2MDM-"> Visit > Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > >
