Chris,

How interesting! If mentation is a sixth sense, then I wonder what sense satori 
or mysicism (non-rational thought) would be? Are they beyond sense? Or do they 
transcend what we know objectivity/subjectivity to be, I wonder?

Mike



________________________________
From: ChrisAustinLane <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2011, 10:38
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zen and Buddhism


  
Do you disagree that the awareness of mentation is a sixth sense?  (as I have 
considered the heart sutra et alia to imply?  And which I personally find to be 
a very freeing bit of Buddhist insight). 

Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Nov 2, 2011, at 21:39, "Bill!" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ED,
> 
> I'll answer your questions below in the reverse order that you asked them:
> 
> [ED]  By 'senses' I assume you refer to the five senses: ...
> 
> I do mean what we call the five senses.
> 
> From an illusory dualistic and discriminating (categorizing/judging) 
> perspective there is a 'me/I' (self) so 'I have 5 senses.  I see something 
> blue and it is pretty.'
> 
> Contrast this with a non-dualistic, non-discriminating perspective which 
> would be: 'Just THIS!' - just awareness.  That is no distinction between 
> 'self' and 'sight', no catagorization of the awareness as 'blue' and no 
> judgement made that it is 'pretty'.
> 
> Just THIS!  That is Buddha Nature.
> 
> [ED]  Was it the position of your Zen teachers?
> 
> I've never discussed Buddha Nature in this manner with my Zen Buddhist 
> teachers.  If I had they would have probably told me to 'empty my bowls' - 
> meaning 'don't try to intellectualize Buddha Nature'.  But to directly answer 
> your question, no - none of my teachers ever told me this.
> 
> [ED]  Is this position traditional in Zen?
> 
> I don't know if there's anyone or any organization that could officially 
> speak for Zen Buddhism.  I think it is the 'traditional position' because 
> most of the traditional koans and stories (mondos) of historical zen adepts 
> that I've read or heard about support this position - at least it seems that 
> way to me.
> 
> In the end however I don't need any validation from traditional zen or from 
> living Zen Buddhist teachers.  I have experienced it myself.
> 
> ...Bill! 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>>> I consider the 'root of zen' to be our senses ...
>> 
>> Is this position traditional in Zen?
>> 
>> Was it the position of your Zen teachers?
>> 
>> Thanks, ED
>> 
>> PS: By 'senses' I assume you refer to the five senses: seeing, hearing,
>> touch, tasting, smelling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ED,
>>> 
>>> I consider the 'root of Buddhism' to be the sutras, and especially
>> those that are presented as a first-hand account of the teachings of
>> Siddartha Buddha.
>>> 
>>> I consider the 'root of Zen Buddhism' to be the account of Siddartha
>> Buddha's 'Flower Sermon' on Vulture Peak when he is reported to have
>> wordlessly trasmited the Dharma to Mahakasyapa.
>>> 
>>> I consider the 'root of zen' to be our senses: Just THIS!
>>> 
>>> ...Bill!
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

 

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