Mike, Yes, that's a good way to say it.
Edgar On Sep 7, 2012, at 7:51 AM, mike brown wrote: > > Merle, > > For me, being a Christian is akin to putting a plaster on an amputee's wound. > Buddhism gets right into the causes of emotional pain which causes suffering. > It's really more of a scientific study of the how the mind works, rather than > a faith-religion. Just believing something with no evidence (faith) does > absolutely nothing in the long-term regards suffering. If my girlfriend > breaks up with me, I experience all kinds of suffering brought about by my > attachment to her. I could even become suicidal if the pain is that bad. But > never the less, I suffer. Is this suffering going to be remedied by looking > into the cause and then working thru it.. or by telling myself Jesus was born > of a virgin? It's a no-brainer. > > Mike > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com> > To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, 7 September 2012, 9:00 > Subject: [Zen] christian > > > > try being a christian... it will ease the pain...merle > > Kris, > > >This takes no effort. > > Ultimately, yes - in day to day living, no. At least not in the story of my > life. It's so easy to claim Buddhahood when things are going well, but just > watch that little house of cards coming crashing down when you get a nasty > hemorrhoids on a hot, sweaty day or your girlfriend cheats on you. That's why > even something as simple as being mindful of the breath can be the most > difficult thing in the world in such circumstances. You can philosophise your > way out of it here quite easily, but meanwhile back in the real world [insert > exegesis on 'real world' here].. > > Mike > > From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, 3 September 2012, 1:34 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" > > > This matter of whether there is or isn't isn't someone to suffer is all smoke > and mirrors. Suffering appears. This is clear enough. What is this notion of > "liberation from" but self relating to self? What appears, appears. What of > it? > > Clarity, selfless. No self that need to see into itself. No such conceptual > contortions required. > > Don't settle for nothing. Don't attach to anything. This takes no effort. > > KG > > On 9/2/2012 5:35 PM, mike brown wrote: >> >> Kris, >> >> There is no one who suffers, but only after the realisation that there isn't >> even a mind for suffering to happen to is there liberation from it. >> "Clarity" here reads as insight. >> >> Mike >> >> From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com> >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 20:23 >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" >> >> >> Then you still know too much. ;) >> >> If it so clear as that, there is nothing to see. The 'obscuration' all that >> may show the way. What you are seeing as separate only appears to be. All a >> matter of how you see it. So who is leading who? Who suffers? In seeking >> perfection, it forever eludes. >> >> The clear minded are equally empty headed. Don't throw the Buddha out with >> the bathwater. >> >> KG >> >> PS - Expresses simpler/more obviously wordlessly - see: 'Wabi Sabi' - >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi >> >> >> >> On 9/2/2012 12:32 PM, mike brown wrote: >>> >>> Kris, >>> >>> >I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than >>> >apparent clarity >>> >>> Reality is certainly there regardless, but reality seen with obscuration >>> leads to suffering, whereas reality seen with clarity will lead to the >>> cessation of suffering. That's all I need to know and that is my witness. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com> >>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 16:11 >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" >>> >>> >>> I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than >>> apparent clarity. In doing so, this point only dances around itself - >>> offers nothing you can't realize directly. >>> >>> What can anyone say in response that you will not directly experience >>> (realize) as some aspect of this reality/realization- whether you realize >>> it or not - just as when experiencing meditation/not meditation? >>> >>> This more or less business is you triangulating your position. Nothing >>> more, nothing less. >>> >>> KG >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/2/2012 5:57 AM, mike brown wrote: >>>> >>>> Edgar, >>>> >>>> Wouldn't you say tho, that reality is less obscured during, or just after, >>>> a long retreat of meditation? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 1:13 >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> Well, it's reality either way, but that reality is always changing as >>>> happening continually flows through the present moment. But however it >>>> changes it is still reality.... >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 6:09 PM, mike brown wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Edgar, >>>>> >>>>> Would you say that the world (inner/outer) you look at now is the same as >>>>> when you're at the end of a sesshin? >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2012, 18:44 >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ED, >>>>> >>>>> Stop practicing and just BE your Buddha Nature! >>>>> >>>>> Edgar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, ED wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Edgar, >>>>>> >>>>>> Therefore, although each of us is complete, we need to practice >>>>>> diligently at all times with no objective in mind? >>>>>> >>>>>> --ED >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Joe and Merle, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > There is no 'goal' of enlightenment to be achieved without which you >>>>>> imagine you are incomplete.... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > There is no incompleteness. This understanding is an essential aspect >>>>>> of realization... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Wham! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Edgar >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >
