>From the Sun's perspective it's probably all ok; the author of the next version of "A Natural History of Intelligent Species of the Milky Way" probably won't be too shocked by our past or likely futures. As a part of nature, I do request my fellow humans to eat as little meat as possible, eschew automobiles as possible, and strive to do more with less materials rather than do less with more. And save our cousin mammals.
Morality without duality : it's not what you'd think On Oct 10, 2012 4:29 AM, "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: > Edgar, > > Whether natural processes are 'OK' or not is another kettle of fish. > > Some natural processes may be inconvenient or even destructive to some or > all species. Whether they're 'OK' or not is purely a human judgement. > > Was the meteor strike which caused the ice age (or whatever) and resulted > in the extinction of many of the then existing life forms which paved the > way for human evolution 'OK'? > > It sure was 'OK' for us, but not for tyrannosaurus rex. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > By your perverted logic it is totally OK for man to be destroying the > planet because that's just a natural process. > > > > Grow up and get real. Zen is not clever sophisms, it's reality... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > What's REALLY important is that it's been framed wrong. It's been > framed as humans vs. nature, or as you put it humans 'interfering' in > nature. As long as humans think they are not part of nature and taht all > their action are natural there will be this problem. > > > > > > When a beaver builds a dam is that interfering with nature? When a > squirrel shits in the woods is that interfering with nature? When a human > splits an atom is that interfering with nature? When a human manipulates > DNA is that interfering with nature? > > > > > > What is the quality that humans have that other animals don't have > that renders them capable of interference - IYO? (I just made that up, IYO > = 'in your opinion') > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Come on Bill. > > > > > > > > In human discourse about Man's impact on nature, that's the way it's > defined, and the whole issue is framed, as you well know... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > This was a VERY SERIOUS response. > > > > > > > > > > Why is it that you think the things that humans do are 'unnatural' > or against nature but the things that other life does is 'natural' and > okay? A friend of mine very wisely (IMO)once suggested that all ethics > should be applied to humans and other life forms equally. > > > > > > > > > > What is the quality that you believe separates humans from the > rest of nature so that human activities and artifacts can be labeled as > 'interference'? > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > Come on, it's a serious issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Humans are just the tip of the iceberg, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why plants and animals insist on interfering with > the way Nature works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, on the early earth there was a nice atmosphere > without oxygen. But blasted Cyanobacteria evolved which like to sip the > methane and other gases there were back then, and started polluting the > atmosphere with ...Oxygen! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then -- wouldn't you know -- other organisms formed which > turned CO2 into even MORE Oxygen, with a help from light from the Sun. The > nerve! They got away with it, though, because there were no Police. The rug > was pulled out from under Nature yet again! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later, some animals evolved, which USE the oxygen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Much later, some of these animals of the Mammal variety called > "Beavers" began to INSIST that they interfere with the stately FLOW of > river tributaries and streams, by ...damming them up! Such nerve. You may > be sure that this caused inundations upstream, and occasional floods > downstream when the dams burst. Havoc. Bye, bye, Nature! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nerve of these organisms: Micro-organisms, Plants, and > Animals. Always interfering with the way Nature works! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least on the Moon there is no such interference, there's > just a continual, thin, rain of meteorites pummeling the surface, and no > atmosphere to make things rust. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oops!, some exotic Mammals left some footprints on the Moon, > and some machinery, during the last fifty years. WHY must there always be > such interference? The Moon had been Nature's nice, quiet, haven for rock > and dust for so long. Why must things always go downhill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/7/2012 9:26 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do humans always insist on interfering with the way > nature works? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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