Edgar,
I told you 'OK' is another kettle of fish. 'OK' is a relative judgement.
If you come to my property and do something that I think is not OK I may do
something to you that you would describe as not OK.
And yes, all that is natural behavior.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> So if I come visit then whatever I do to your property is OK? Because since
> I'm a human anything I do is 'natural'.
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Bill! wrote:
>
> > Edgar,
> >
> > Whether natural processes are 'OK' or not is another kettle of fish.
> >
> > Some natural processes may be inconvenient or even destructive to some or
> > all species. Whether they're 'OK' or not is purely a human judgement.
> >
> > Was the meteor strike which caused the ice age (or whatever) and resulted
> > in the extinction of many of the then existing life forms which paved the
> > way for human evolution 'OK'?
> >
> > It sure was 'OK' for us, but not for tyrannosaurus rex.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > By your perverted logic it is totally OK for man to be destroying the
> > > planet because that's just a natural process.
> > >
> > > Grow up and get real. Zen is not clever sophisms, it's reality...
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > >
> > > > Edgar,
> > > >
> > > > What's REALLY important is that it's been framed wrong. It's been
> > > > framed as humans vs. nature, or as you put it humans 'interfering' in
> > > > nature. As long as humans think they are not part of nature and taht
> > > > all their action are natural there will be this problem.
> > > >
> > > > When a beaver builds a dam is that interfering with nature? When a
> > > > squirrel shits in the woods is that interfering with nature? When a
> > > > human splits an atom is that interfering with nature? When a human
> > > > manipulates DNA is that interfering with nature?
> > > >
> > > > What is the quality that humans have that other animals don't have that
> > > > renders them capable of interference - IYO? (I just made that up, IYO =
> > > > 'in your opinion')
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Come on Bill.
> > > > >
> > > > > In human discourse about Man's impact on nature, that's the way it's
> > > > > defined, and the whole issue is framed, as you well know...
> > > > >
> > > > > Edgar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Edgar,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was a VERY SERIOUS response.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is it that you think the things that humans do are 'unnatural'
> > > > > > or against nature but the things that other life does is 'natural'
> > > > > > and okay? A friend of mine very wisely (IMO)once suggested that all
> > > > > > ethics should be applied to humans and other life forms equally.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is the quality that you believe separates humans from the rest
> > > > > > of nature so that human activities and artifacts can be labeled as
> > > > > > 'interference'?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Come on, it's a serious issue...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edgar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Joe wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Edgar,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And Humans are just the tip of the iceberg, too.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why plants and animals insist on interfering with
> > > > > > > > the way Nature works.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For example, on the early earth there was a nice atmosphere
> > > > > > > > without oxygen. But blasted Cyanobacteria evolved which like to
> > > > > > > > sip the methane and other gases there were back then, and
> > > > > > > > started polluting the atmosphere with ...Oxygen!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then -- wouldn't you know -- other organisms formed which
> > > > > > > > turned CO2 into even MORE Oxygen, with a help from light from
> > > > > > > > the Sun. The nerve! They got away with it, though, because
> > > > > > > > there were no Police. The rug was pulled out from under Nature
> > > > > > > > yet again!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Later, some animals evolved, which USE the oxygen.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Much later, some of these animals of the Mammal variety called
> > > > > > > > "Beavers" began to INSIST that they interfere with the stately
> > > > > > > > FLOW of river tributaries and streams, by ...damming them up!
> > > > > > > > Such nerve. You may be sure that this caused inundations
> > > > > > > > upstream, and occasional floods downstream when the dams burst.
> > > > > > > > Havoc. Bye, bye, Nature!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The nerve of these organisms: Micro-organisms, Plants, and
> > > > > > > > Animals. Always interfering with the way Nature works!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At least on the Moon there is no such interference, there's
> > > > > > > > just a continual, thin, rain of meteorites pummeling the
> > > > > > > > surface, and no atmosphere to make things rust.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Oops!, some exotic Mammals left some footprints on the Moon,
> > > > > > > > and some machinery, during the last fifty years. WHY must there
> > > > > > > > always be such interference? The Moon had been Nature's nice,
> > > > > > > > quiet, haven for rock and dust for so long. Why must things
> > > > > > > > always go downhill?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --Joe
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 10/7/2012 9:26 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why do humans always insist on interfering with the way
> > > > > > > > > > nature works?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
