tell me how karma came back to the war criminals? some of them live long healthy lives...they don't give a shit it could be another one of the spinning bullshit to keep us all in check...be good or else? being good has nothing to do with karma one is good because one is and it is part and parcel of being an evolved human being..merle
Mike, I think karma is a scam too. It just depends where your head is, when you die. You could have been a mass murderer, as at least one master has been, and if you have no overwhelming guilt, then there is nothing to hold you back. Karma is just your hang ups you couldn't get over in this lifetime. In fact, you can even go a step further, and realize that there is no individual you, and even your thoughts are not yours. In fact your actions are not actually yours either, as there is no individual you. At this point, what is karma without the individual? It's nowhere. It's all bullshit actually. --- In [email protected], mike brown wrote: > > Suresh, > I think there`s a big difference between Buddhism and Christianity. Morality > in the latter is more concerned with our actions on others than it is in > Buddhism, which is much more concerned with our actions as they affect > ourselves. For example, in Buddhism it is much better for us to be the victim > of a murder than it is to be the murderer. The cost of being spat on pales to > the cost of the person who did the spitting. > My idea of karma/causation is in agreement with Buddha`s when he said that if > you do this this will follow. If you don`t do this then that won`t follow. In > other words, it all comes back down to what makes us suffer. > Mike > > > > --- On Mon, 7/1/13, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > From: SURESH JAGADEESAN > Subject: [Zen] Karma is real and free will is illusion. > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, 7 January, 2013, 21:30 > > Dear Joe, > > I agree to your argument to some extent, but still I have doubts. > > Joe: In the awakened state, karma and free will are moot, and do not > operate. Yet, if we slide backward from the awakened state, and fall > into delusion even a bit, karma (our previous conditioning, > mind-habits, and the past and future results of these) will again > influence us, and we will find that our behavior is not in accord with > the Precepts any longer. - One must still practice in order to remain > awake. > > Suresh: Buddha himself states that Siddhartha was died long time back > and no one had noticed it. It means in the moment of awakening to > Buddhahood, the Siddhartha died, again it means his mind is totally > died and never to born. In your statement you state that the awakened > one can fall back if he doesn’t practice. If one can fall back means > he is not an enlightened one. A Buddha cannot fall back. > > Ramana Maharishi states that a guru is person who continuously abides > in self, no one and no situation can change his state of being one > with self. > > It looks like you are talking about your state; you seem deluded in > your misunderstanding of Buddhahood. You are not open. You are glued > to zen and feel superior over others in this forum since you have long > practice of zen. This long practice itself seems hindrance to be fully > awakened as Buddha. It is the problem of following something. > J.Krishnamurti states that divine is pathless land. > > So my dear Joe, please be alert from your zen practice. > > Joe: But, now, free will is not "real", as karma is not "real". > > Suresh: Please note free will is not real. But’ karma’ is real. Karma > is real as long as you consider yourself as body. Even if you see > yourself as pure consciousness / self / Buddhahood, the body born to > be you will follow karma until its destruction. > > Hence Buddha also not exempted from karma. And hence once in Buddha > life, a person came and spitted on his face. This action to his body, > he himself states that it is due to his past karma. So even a Buddha > is not spared from karma. So Karma is real. > > Since Karma is real, there is no ‘free will’. All our actions are > influenced, if you consciously watch your actions you will know. As > long as you are influenced by any force you are not a Buddha. Not even > the urge of brushing your teeth. > > Ramana Maharishi sat motionless for nearly 1.5 years. He was shifted > by people surrounded and people who were wondering about him. He will > not even take food kept in front of him, someone had to pour some milk > in his mouth by force. It was by his devotees’ effort he lived up to > 72 years. But himself he did not desired to continue his bodily life. > > Again even in Ramana’s life there were incidents of thieves attacking > him, but again it is due to Karma, so even Sri.Ramana is not spared > from Karma. So Karma is real and free will is illusion. > > Best wishes > Suresh > > > > -- > Thanks and best regards > J.Suresh > New No.3, Old No.7, > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > Alwarpet, > Chennai - 600018 > Ph: 044 42030947 > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >
