Scott, I have never been to Burma/Myranmar I have been to Malaysia, Vietnam and Laos.
You can keep in touch with me via personal email at [email protected]. Nice to hear from you again...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Bummy McNeedy" wrote: > > Hey Bill, > You probably don't remember me. My name is Scott. I talked with you a bit > last summer while I was in Koh Tao and BKK. I'm the American who lives in > Chongqing. Anyway, I've been away from this group since then cuz got super > busy with business after last summer. Anyway, I've gotta get away from here > again, and am heading to Burma for 10 days, starting April 1st. Have you ever > gotten a chance to get over there? > Scott (Bummy) > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" wrote: > > > > *** Corrected and Re-Posted *** > > > > Scott, > > > > Okay, because sometimes we do have some discussions on some pretty weird > > topics here. We usually just let them go on until they run their own course. > > > > You bring up a good point though. > > > > IMO... > > > > The dualistic set of 'good:bad' fall within the province of philosophy > > (ethics)or religions (morality). Buddhism labels things as 'good' and > > 'bad', or at least 'right' and 'wrong'. One of the core teachings of > > Buddhism is the Nobel Eightfold Path which lists out eight areas in which > > you are to concentrate your practice: 'Right View, Right Intention, Right > > Speech, etc...'. This obviously implies there are 'wrong views', 'wrong > > intentions', 'wrong speech', etc... This approach is not however the > > teaching of zen when the core of zen is freed from the religion of Buddhism. > > > > Zen teaches you to develop an awareness of 'Buddha Nature'. That's been > > described as a lot of different things, but I think I'm safe in describing > > it in part as a 'holistic state of awareness'. The key term here is > > 'holistic', and it needs to be understood in contrast with 'dualistic'. > > 'Holistic' implies the universe/reality is One. Dualism implies there are > > many separate things. I (and many zen writings) call these separate things > > 'illusion'. Illusions not only apply to what we perceive as separate > > physical things but also to what we conceptualize as categories, valuations > > and judgement. > > > > So, you're correct that from a holistic perspective (what I guess could be > > called a 'zen perspective') there is no 'good' and 'bad'. There is Just > > THIS! And Just THIS! is neither good nor bad. > > > > The problem though is when you interpret this to imply that anything you > > view, intend, speak, etc..., should go unchallenged because there is no > > 'good' or 'bad'. If indeed you are viewing, intending, speaking, etc..., > > while Buddha Nature is manifest (a non-dualistic state) then yes, your view > > is a holistic view, intention a holistic intention, speech a holistic > > speech, etc..., and will be pure and not conceptualized as good or bad. But > > if you still have a trace of dualism, of self (the result of the dualistic > > set self:other) then your dualistic views, intentions, speech, etc..., are > > certainly subject to the dualistic conceptualizations of good and bad. > > > > Again, all this is just IMO. I'm sure others on this forum will have other > > opinions, some of which may be contradictory to mine. But that's how I see > > it. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Scott Williams wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bill,Actually my writing was a little screwed up. I didn't actually > > > mean that it has no place in a zen discussion, but I meant that because > > > of the way in which everything thing comes into being, can there actually > > > be anything considered good/bad? That's just feeding into duality. Didnt > > > mean there's anything wrong with any discussion.Cheers.Scott > > > > > > --- On Thu, 31/1/13, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > From: Bill! > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: war criminals > > > To: [email protected] > > > Received: Thursday, 31 January, 2013, 4:37 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bummy, > > > > > > > > > > > > We are very lax here on allowing most any topic to be discussed. We have > > > two moderators, Edgar and me, who would jointly make the decision if a > > > discussion topic, discussion direction or a particular member became > > > objectionable to the point that we agreed we needed to stop it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree with your statement below that because we aspire to 'follow > > > the Tao - the Way' we have no responsibility. We have the responsibility > > > to assure that we are following the Tao and not some ego-centric, > > > self-centered attachment that we have deceived ourselves into believing > > > is the 'Way'. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is our practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bummy McNeedy" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see no reason why the term war criminal has any validity in a zen > > > > discussion group. Being that there is only a stream of thought and > > > > action pouring through one and/or all, then there is no responsibility. > > > > Everything is, as it should be. Also: grieve not for the alive nor the > > > > dead.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "iain" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might find the research paper below interesting Suresh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Already several seconds before we consciously make a decision its > > > > > outcome can be predicted from unconscious activity in the brain. This > > > > > is shown in a study by scientists from the Max Planck Institute for > > > > > Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Leipzig, in collaboration with > > > > > the Charité University Hospital and the Bernstein Center for > > > > > Computational Neuroscience in Berlin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.mpg.de/567905/pressRelease20080414 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note yesterday it was revealed to me that, the form (any > > > > > > form) > > > > > > > > > is bound by action and reaction. Formless(space) is free. Just take > > > > > > > > > example of heavenly bodies they are bound by a law which was > > > > > > > > > discovered by Newton. That is all bodies move in a straight > > > > > > direction > > > > > > > > > unless or until it was intervene by other object. Since there are > > > > > > > > > innumerable bodies, they bound to come across close to other body > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > their nature of being moving in one direction. So there bound to be > > > > > > > > > interaction between bodies, and the result will be as per law of > > > > > > > > > forces. Suppose on a moving body which is moving in the direction of > > > > > > > > > east I apply one force from north direction, it will move south > > > > > > east. > > > > > > > > > If I apply force from two different directions, then it will move in > > > > > > > > > resultant direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suppose I apply force in multiple directions which way the body will > > > > > > > > > move? Definitely it will move resultant of all force directions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same rule applicable to human bodies also. Even in the > > > > > > discussions > > > > > > > > > in this forum, please note for example Merle will be having certain > > > > > > > > > view on life and she is moving in that direction, then Joe comes and > > > > > > > > > tells her something and then Mike tells something, then I come and > > > > > > > > > tell something. Then certainly some changes happen in Merle. Her > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > will be thinking resultant of all these discussion forces. Then her > > > > > > > > > body reacts based on her mental thinking, similarly with everyone. > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > Mind is a field in which all these forces take place and body is > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > obedient servant of mind will follow what mind says. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind actions are based on various forces acted upon it. But for > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > force who is responsible? Why I should join this forum? And discuss > > > > > > > > > like this with you, so that your thinking changes. It means in me > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > one applied some force so I joined this forum. So my actions are not > > > > > > > > > mine alone, it is the resultant of all forces (influences) of the > > > > > > > > > environment in which this body is in. I am a life energy having > > > > > > taken > > > > > > > > > this body, which is again due to past actions moving in an > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > > > subjected to all kind of forces some actions are performed by this > > > > > > > > > body, which again influences some other body-mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So in your argument you state War Criminals, whom are you > > > > > > > > > representing, the one who initiated the war or one who perform war? > > > > > > > > > The one who initiated also bound by forces of environment just like > > > > > > > > > you. Your environment was different, and hence you follow zen and be > > > > > > > > > peaceful, their environment was different and hence they initiated > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > war. They know not what they are doing (Jesus). Similarly the one > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > perform war are bound by environment. The performer is really > > > > > > innocent > > > > > > > > > he was doing his duties as ordered by his seniors/boss. Hence > > > > > > > > > performer don't have guilty and live happily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there are no individual actions. All actions are resultant of > > > > > > > > > forces. And you are the field of awareness in which all action takes > > > > > > > > > place, which you can only see. It is like watching movie and feels > > > > > > > > > like hero or heroine and enjoys or suffers as like them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact you are an observer and no such actions of hero or heroine > > > > > > > > > bound by you, but still you suffer or enjoy. Can you change the > > > > > > scenes > > > > > > > > > of a movie? NO. It was already directed by somebody. It is the same, > > > > > > > > > this whole cosmic is directed by someone, you are only to watch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In truth the watcher is the director and he only created all these > > > > > > > > > objects. That realization comes later once you know you are pure > > > > > > > > > consciousness and not this body, which you possess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best regards > > > > > > > > > J.Suresh > > > > > > > > > New No.3, Old No.7, > > > > > > > > > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > > > > > > > > > Alwarpet, > > > > > > > > > Chennai - 600018 > > > > > > > > > Ph: 044 42030947 > > > > > > > > > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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