Martin Aspeli wrote: > Baiju M wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Baiju M<mba...@zeomega.com> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" >>> as "BlueBream". >> I am unable to make a conclusion out of this discussion as many >> real users of "Zope 3 - the web frame work" is not given +1 >> But there are so many +1 from other framework users like >> Grok,Zope 2,BFG etc. > > This may reflect the number of "pure Zope 3" users still active in the > community, although I'm speculating. > > What I would say, is that we shouldn't discount the votes from people > predominantly associated with Zope 2 or Grok. Those people still have a > stake in Zope, and are still hurt by the "Zope 3 is not a successor to > Zope 2" problem and the "Grok doesn't run on Zope 3, it runs on ZTK > (soon)" problem causing confusion for its users. > > I think we've known for years that Zope 3 has been difficult to market > and identify. For the first time in years, we have an opportunity to > have a much clearer story to the outside world. "Zope 2" is the thing > people have used for a decade and love to love or love to hate. There is > a package of useful web development tools known as the Zope Toolkit, or > ZTK for short. Blue Bream (which will inevitably be shortened to just > "Bream" but I think keeping the longer name is worthwhile) is a > full-stack framework also built on the ZTK. Grok is another full-stack > framework built on the ZTK, with a different emphasis on convention over > configuration. You could diagram the relationship between these things > relatively easily. > > I know we've had one -1 vote on the concept of renaming, and one -1 vote > on the name itself. I'd like to hear from Jim, the Launchpad crew, and > certainly give people some time. But as it stands, even "pure Zope 3" > people are in favour, with you and Stephan +1. > > I think what could happen is this: > > - You keep experimenting with a "quickstart" setup using Paste Script. > You should use the name "Blue Bream" there exclusively, or maybe just > "Bream" for short/internal things like package names. > > - In the meantime, we see if more opinions emerge. This isn't a > decision we should make in two days. >
Grrr.... Cmd+Enter :) To continue: - The ZTK will hopefully stabilise on a "small" ZTK and a bigger ZopeApp KGS. - Get together with Marius, Stephan and anyone else who cares, and see if you can get a Blue Bream KGS that builds on the ZTK and uses the ZopeApp KGS. You probably want to depend on the ZTK and fork ZopeApp, since ZopeApp is just a transitional thing. In the longer run, Blue Bream is going to be the main owner of those things, and can choose which of those packages live or die. - Before you release anything, build bluebream.zope.org, a small and focused website explaining what Blue Bream is, its heritage, and its connection to Zope and the ZTK. Speak to Andreas, who has infrastructure for this kind of thing. - Create/document an upgrade path from "pure Zope 3" of old to Blue Bream. If you get to *that* point, and no-one's shot you down too much, release the whole thing and then try to maintain it. Congratulations, you are now the owner of a next-generation Python framework, built on the power of the ZTK. :) As an aside: I would *not* rename the zope.app.* namespace. Even new Blue Bream-only things can live in zope.app.*. This is the only way to keep a sane upgrade process for people with live Zope 3 applications, who are going to be your biggest audience. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )