+-------[ michael nt milne ]---------------------- | "yeah, I can see how this kind of attitude draws lots and lots of new | followers to zope." | | Quite right. It's an ignorant attitude and one that itself deserves the label | that it is prescribing. It's been prevalent for a long time on this list. The
So if I start a wiki, making a tonne of incorrect, and ignorant statements about plone, use these false/misleading statements as a basis for replacing plone, and then post it to the plone list trying to get support for replacing plone, that list will support me right? 100% ? | whole attitude here is one of sneering and schoolboy name calling. You need to trust that those you can identify as senior members of the community, are telling the rest of you that this guy is full of crap. There have some dubious postings of late. More are coming I can assure you. The single thing that should have alerted you that something was up. *** Chris Withers and I agreed on something d8) Imagine for a moment this guy came to you for a job, claiming 25+ years of dev experience, and 2+ years of Zope experience. How many of the following would you expect him to know about? Let's just say Zope 2 even. o REQUEST.SESSION o bobobase_modification_time o User Folders - CookieCrumbler - SimpleUserFolder - LDAPUserFolder - exUserFolder - PAS - anything at all in http://zope.org/Products/user_management o metal:define-macro o metal:use-macro o metal:define-slot o metal:fill-slot o tal:replace="structure ..." o Zope Security Tab? o General web security o OO development o Security overrides for python scripts o Abstraction, encapsulation Would you be pissed at having employed this person only to find out they didn't know any of these things? The people slagging this guys are pissed. Because the guy has done NO research, and no reading whatsover, and then claims Zope needs to be rewritten (of course, it IS already being rewritten, which shows how much research he did, but, not for any of the reasons he listed [because they are crap]). What if he claimed to be able to write a python Product, but, also claimed they didn't know how to subclass OFS.Image to keep the creation date? Would you believe them? Would you give the guy any credibility? Are you in a position to evaluate the claims? | Is there a reason that the Plone list gets 3 times the level of postings that | the Zope list gets? Yes. Because it's larger and more complicated than Zope itself? You factored in the CMF list traffic too right? | because it is a more mature and constructive support | environment which actually helps promote the product. That's just a bizarre claim (one, I imagine based more on opinion than fact?) One could claim that the number of postings is proportional to the amount of help required, which is almost certainly proportional to the experience of the userbase and the complexity of the subject. These are the types of bizarre claims that generate sneering name-calling replies d8) My counter claims; o Zope list generates less traffic because it is a mature, well-documented piece of software well understood by its userbase, and supported through other media such as IRC (where #zope gets far more plone questions than it ought to because "Everyone in #plone is asleep" is oft lamented). o Newbies will post regardless of the tone of the list, because for the most part they don't read anything, including the list-charter, list-archives, the FAQ, or any of the other documentation available. o Noone is not going to use software because of a hostile userbase. Linux proves this. In fact it might make the case for us being more offensive. d8) -- Andrew Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
