Hello Dr. Maneck,
Previous dialogue snippets:
Sandra Chamberlain: """Not *public* but, "...in the world to come...""""
Dr. Susan Maneck: """Ah yes. Let's not forget that traditionally
adultery has been punished by stoning. And no, Jesus never explicitly
did away with that, He simply
refused to uphold a double standard which punished women and let men off
scot free."""
In another place, Dr, Maneck wrote: """Ron, Actually, there is not
much evidence that Jesus changed that much of anything in the Old
Testament. It is more Paul who did the abrogating. What he did (at
least as Protestants would understand it) was chuch out the law
period, and in so doing took away any say Christianity might have in
terms of society. Virtually all of the things Christians adhere to in terms of
social teachings are derived from the Old Testament and not the New."""
Ron replies: Dr. Maneck, I must with all due respect disagree with
your point here, and the similar points you have made about Jesus, the
Old Testament Laws, and the Apostle Paul.
First, I am fully aware that is quite fashionable these days to
denigrate the Apostle Paul, and to say that he led the early Christian
Church astray, and away from the true teachings of Jesus. It is common
these days for some Christian theologian revisionists to say that Paul
created a new religion, barely related to the one Jesus intended.
But I am very surprised to hear a Baha'i scholar talk like this. It is
my understanding, from my readings of the Writings of the Baha'i
Central Figures, particularly Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi, that we
as Baha'is are diametrically opposed to such revisionists. That is,
our Central Figures uphold the teachings of the New Testament as a
whole, and regard it all as divine Scripture, not just the parts
normally ascribed to Jesus Himself. These Baha'i Writings show the
utmost respect for the early Christian Church, and all its teachings
and authority, certainly including the authority of the Writings
ascribed to Paul as well as the Gospels. Now before you even ask , I
can not, off the top of my head, quote you chapter and verse of which
books by the Master and the Guardian make these points, although I am
certain I could find them if I took the time. Please do not require me
to do so; I am sure that if you think about it, you will realize from
your own memory that this is true.
As for the Bible, as you know, I know it. The stoning incident is an
important one. But I do not think your interpretation is viable. It is
not consistent with the rest of the New Testament.
Jesus said "" let he who is without sin amongst you cast the first
stone". In saying this, He obviously banned stoning for all time and
in all places for those who would follow Him. For who amongst us is
without sin? Certainly not anybody, so no one can ever justifiably
stone anyone ever again. In fact , the only One present that day who
was without sin, and thus might have met Jesus' requirement to stone
the adulteress, was Jesus Himself. That is why, after all the would-be
stoners dropped their stones and slunk away, He next said "Neither do
I condemn thee, Go thy way and sin no more"
Thus Jesus Himself refused to follow the Old Testament law and stone
the adulterer.
Jesus repeatedly, all through the Gospels, refuses to obey the Old
Testament Laws time and time again, and He does so publicly and makes
doubly certain that people notice He does this. He violates the
Sabbath; He eats the forbidden shew-corn.; etc. etc. And He even gives
reasons why it is right to violate these laws.
And, both from a conventional Christian point of view, as well as a
Baha'i point of view (as expounded by our Central Figures), Paul's
commentary on the Law is every bit as binding and authoritative as any
other part of the New Testament.
Now, Jesus personally violated many of he Laws, He did so publicly, He
led and caused His disciples to do so also, and He even gave His
reasoning why it was right to to do so. And yet Jesus also said "Not
one jot or tittle of the Law shall pass away". (John 5:17) How do we
reconcile these things?
Obviously, Jesus Spiritualized the Law. He most certainly did not "do
away" with it; but He transcended it, commuted it to Spiritual
principles, and thus fulfilled it and caused the Law to transcend
itself and morph into a far greater form of Spiritual Law (which Jesus
Himself describes elsewhere).
I do not believe that these things are in dispute. Normative
Christianity has always believed thus, the New Testament explains it
clearly and indisputably, and our Baha'i Central Figures have upheld
the New Testament.
Ron
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