More seriously; the idea that someone either volunteers themselves to enter an environment they find disturbing and uncomfortable, or they're actively contributing to it being disturbing and uncomfortable, is (frankly) bullshit. Katherine is not responsible for the failure of Commons to produce much beyond pictures of genitals. If they continue to do so, while she continues to refuse to get involved, it will still not be her responsibility.
Where I come from, we tend to take the attitude that people are inherently capable of change - that if people are contributing to an awkward, and uncomfortable, and narrowly-scoped environment, they can in fact, very occasionally, come to understand this and solve for it. Now: it's true that groups can be aided in this by people from outside who understand the problem entering to help. But it does not follow that anyone from outside the environment who notes that there is a problem be /mandated to participate/ and shamed if they refuse. On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote: > That sounds perfectly reasonable. In the same way: those Christians who > didn't stick their head in the lion's mouth should be ashamed. I mean, yes, > they'd have ended up decapitated, but they'd have been *part of the > solution!* We just need a few more people to get nibbled on before the > lions' teeth will be far too worn down to bite anyone else. > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Russavia <russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Fluff, >> >> I can only say that with that in mind, you are not part of the >> solution, but part of the problem. This isn't an attack in anyway >> shape or form on yourself personally, and I hope you realise precisely >> what I mean by this. >> >> That personal invite by myself will always stay open to you, and I'd >> be happy to show you the ropes around "my neck of the woods". >> >> Cheers, >> >> Russavia >> >> >> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Katherine Casey >> <fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Alas no, I'm not up to your challenge. I'm subject to quite enough >> > aggression and strange sexualization of situations on enwp; I don't >> have the >> > energy to dive headfirst into an even worse atmosphere of those things >> on >> > Commons. I'm much more comfortable speaking here, in an environment of >> > respect and support, than I would ever be there, in an environment >> where my >> > right to my opinions would be challenged and I'd be shouting into a void >> > while thinking that at any moment someone was going to ask me to show my >> > "tits". >> > >> > Not everyone has unlimited tolerance for doing things that make them >> very >> > uncomfortable; as someone whose tolerance for that is perhaps lower than >> > some other people's, my hope is that my voice here, where I am >> comfortable >> > speaking, will be heard - as it seems to be, given this thread and the >> > inroads that have been made on Commons as a result of it - and that my >> > speaking here it will provide support to the people who are willing to >> brave >> > that environment. >> > >> > -Fluff >> > >> > >> > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Russavia <russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Hey Fluff, >> >> >> >> Indeed we did have a conversation on IRC the other day. You and I may >> not >> >> agree on numerous things, and in many instances we have very similar >> views >> >> (but perhaps you just aren't aware of it), but one thing we surely can >> agree >> >> on is that by only commenting on this list is not having your voice >> heard in >> >> the place where it matters -- and that is on Commons. >> >> >> >> I urged you the other day to come and join us on the project, noting >> that >> >> you don't have many contributions there >> >> (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fluffernutter), >> and >> >> I am again urging you to come and join us. >> >> >> >> Are you up for that challenge? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> Russavia >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Katherine Casey >> >> <fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Russavia, from the perspective of many people here, "blowing hot air" >> on >> >>> Commons is the least likely to bring about change of any of the >> options you >> >>> mention. I know you don't agree with that (you and I had quite a long >> IRC >> >>> conversation the other day where you made that clear), but it is the >> genuine >> >>> impression many, many of us have been left with after watching how >> >>> discussions tend to go there. >> >>> >> >>> -Fluff >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Gendergap mailing list >> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Gendergap mailing list >> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > >
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