On the plus side, discretionary sanctions... George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 26, 2014, at 7:36 AM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmoor...@verizon.net> >> wrote: >> But thank you for the good comments below mine, but must reply to your >> introductory remarks... >> >>> On 11/26/2014 9:43 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: >>> ... >>> That's a slightly simplistic summary, eliding the fact that Eric C. is also >>> very often non-toxic, and has a long history of collaborating in a very >>> professional and respectful manner with many diverse women editors to bring >>> a large number of articles to good or featured status. >> **He still disrupted the GGTF with his friends in order to stop it having an >> influencing in increasing civility or harassment enforcement. > > > That's why I agree with Newyorkbrad that he should be topic-banned from the > GGTF pages. But really, if you want to have a meaningful discussion of this, > on-wiki is not the right place, as it is with so many of these issues. The > signal-to-noise ratio is appalling, and the end result is a waste of time. > > >>> A good number of those women spoke up for him on the Proposed Decision talk >>> page. And even more women took issue with the way the gender gap is often >>> framed here. >> *Women editors will have different views, but if the main reason they come >> is to support one or more males who call women cunts, > > > He didn't. I won't get into that whole long discussion here; all I had to say > about this is on the proposed decision talk page, and anyone who is > interested can read it up there. > > >> sorry if they don't have much credibility. > >> By here you mean this email list or GGTF? If you study the GGTF timeline >> and archives you'll see that some of the most rediculous proposals were made >> by males and rejected, but thrown up as "typical" of what GGTF wanted; there >> were three editors there just to harass two women editors; the opponents >> kept knocking the project and everything said by good faith participants to >> the point supporters either stopped commenting or got angry and told them to >> quit it - over and over again. > > > I meant both here and at the GGTF. If you have a number of very capable women > contributors – people who actually have contributed significant amounts of > quality content – saying that they can't identify with the way the issue is > being framed by the Foundation and those spearheading the gender gap effort, > then not listening and entering a dialogue with those people is a missed > opportunity. > > >>> Note also that when Eric spoke of alienating male contributors, this was in >>> the specific context of affirmative actions (which even those proposing >>> them warned carried a risk of provoking a backlash). Two arbitrators had >>> the decency to oppose that finding of fact based on the omission of that >>> context. >> *Yeah, a male came up with a proposal that two males had to OK and revert of >> an (alleged) female editor. That didn't fly, but we kept hearing about it >> and had to thrash the arbitrators with diffs til they realized it was a >> strawman pushed by Corbett and crew. You didn't get the memo? >> >> But the good news is if Corbett does it again, he's in trouble. I have >> predicted from the start I (and later Neotarf) would be the sacrificial >> lambs offered up to keep Corbett's supporters from going crazy if even the >> mildest of sanctions was imposed. (I've heard that ast time Corbett got a >> strong sanction several high profile admins quit, started petitions, all >> sorts of shenanigans to disrupt the project.) I still think that is so and >> told them so.... > > > I am a supporter of both Eric and you, inasmuch as you're both spirited > people and I didn't wish to see either of you site-banned. > > The whole thing is quite a spectacular breakdown in communication. The term > "Arbitration Committee" is really an egregious misnomer. They never actually > arbitrate: all they do is punish. > > If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. > > Commiserations. > > Best, > Andreas > >> >> I'm using the meme "INSTITUTIONALIZED HARASSMENT AT WIKIPEDIA" - feel free >> to quote me... >> >> CM >> _____________ >>> >>> >>> I do think the arbitrators should revisit Newyorkbrad's idea of a GGTF >>> topic ban for Eric. (Generally, Newyorkbrad's comments in this case were >>> spot-on for me throughout.) I did find some of Eric's >>> contributions to the GGTF pages were excessively argumentative and >>> confrontational, and not helpful. But I am very glad he is not getting >>> banned. >>> >>> I do regret seeing the ban for Carol pass. >>> >>> Again, I would encourage people to set up their own Gendergap discussion >>> site and blog off-wiki ... and also to listen to those women who spoke up >>> in the case who feel that the current framing of the Gendergap issue does >>> not represent them. >>> >>> And since I am posting here, let me remind everyone again that we still do >>> not seem to have the gender split from the 2012 editor survey. We have had >>> excuses, promises and silences from the Foundation on this, but no data. >>> >>> What was the gender split in the 2012 survey? Donor money paid for this >>> survey. Why is the information still not available, over two years after >>> the survey ran? >>> >>> It should be a really easy question to answer: x% female, y% male. >>> >>> Best, >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gendergap mailing list >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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