Could someone please send me a copy of The Divine Revolution of Ṛgveda X.124:
A New Interpretation Beyond Asuras and Devas?
Thanks,
Dean
On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 01:51:10 PM GMT+5:30, John Lowe
<john.l...@orinst.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Dear all,I may have missed some of this thread due to an overactive spam
filter, but to my knowledge no one has mentioned Stephanie Jamison's paper
which addresses precisely this issue, 'The Divine Revolution of Ṛgveda X.124: A
New Interpretation Beyond Asuras and Devas', in the Fritz Staal FS On Meaning
and Mantras, 2016.Best wishesJohnFrom: INDOLOGY
<indology-boun...@list.indology.info> on behalf of Caley Smith via INDOLOGY
<indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: 31 May 2022 20:19
To: Hock, Hans Henrich <hhh...@illinois.edu>
Cc: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater? I
understand, but it nevertheless seems relevant to the notion of "origin and
fate" of a collocation if it's importance and use in most branches of PIE is
vastly different than 2 branches taken, perhaps ad hoc, as representing some
original or default state. That's all I wished to express.
Best, Caley
On Tue, May 31, 2022, 2:47 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <hhh...@illinois.edu> wrote:
What Dean was talking about is the specific word dyau.h and the collocation
dyau.s pitā, the latter of which is compared to Greek zeus patēr and Lat.
iuppiter. Obviously there are many other deities connected with the sky, but
that was not the point of the query and the response
All the best
Hans Henrich
On May 31, 2022, at 12:18, Caley Smith <smith.ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
It seems to me speaking of an Indic diminishing of a dyaus pitar as maybe
jumping the gun. There are plenty of heavenly figures (tvastr and savitar are
often characterized as deva/divya) but the importance of a dyaus pitar can't
even really be reconstructed to the indo-Iranian level. Important father
figures are the Father Asura from RV 10.124, Kuiper has some interesting
thoughts on this. And of course there is a heavenly mother in Aditi, I think
it's first in Breretons the Rgvedic Adityas he suggests an adj a-diti "unbound"
that applied to heavenly could be reanalyzed as the femimine partner of Heaven
and become a goddess in her own right. If I misremember these things please
forgive, I'm on my phone bouncing my newborn currently.
It seems to me a particulary important part of Indra's character that he is not
a biological father, and thus perhaps any study of the figure of a dyaus pitar
might have to really re think what the family as an in situ political unit
means in PIE and IIr. It's not really obvious to me that a steppe clan based
family in a segmentation society should in any way have a similar concept of
family and paternity as the fixed field agrarian Greek or Roman one. Sorry is
not more helpful.
Best, Caley
On Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:27 PM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
<indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Thanks Hans Henrich,
I was aware that he was not widely mentioned in RV but I hadn't thought of the
ramifications of that until your post.
I realize this may be the wrong place to ask this, but are you aware of any
studies on the origin and fate of Dyaus/Zeus/Tiu across or within the other
Indo-European languages?
Best,
Dean
On Monday, May 30, 2022, 10:21:02 PM GMT+5:30, Hock, Hans Henrich
<hhh...@illinois.edu> wrote:
Dear Dean,
Even in the RigVeda dyauṣ pitṛ appears only six times;dyauḥ by itself, of
course, occurs frequently, but often in feminine gender. In addition, there is
the compounddyāvāpṛthivī.
So, while dyauṣ pitṛ (and his relation topṛthivī mātṛ) may be important from
the perspective of comparative Indo-European mythology, his role in the Vedic
tradition is highly diminished from the beginning. Other deities (Agni, Indra,
Mitra, Varuṇa, etc.) play a more important role, and in Vedic Prose, Viṣṇu, as
personification of the sacrifice, becomes more important (as well as Rudra),
and of course Prajāpati, the ‘lord of creatures’.
I hope this at least partly answers your query.
All the best,
Hans Henrich
On 30 May2022, at 08:43, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
<indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Indology List,
Can anyone point me to any studies that discuss what happened to the Vedic
Dyaus Pater who was important in the Rig Veda but who seems to have been
supplanted in later times?
It's particularly interesting for Indo-European studies because Dyaus is
related to the Greek Zeus and the Germanic Tyr/Tius andDyaus Pater to the Roman
Ju-piter.
Best,
Dean
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