On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 8:45 AM John H Palmieri <jhpalmier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi William,
> There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of voting,
> but we have a chair and we have an executive committee, and the hope is that
> they care not only about the particular issue at hand, but also about the
> atmosphere in the department. So if someone asked for a delay, probably the
> executive committee would consider it and make a decision. That would not
> likely result in a vote on whether to delay, but just a decision to delay the
> vote, and probably to schedule some meetings for discussion.
> John
Thanks! So it's basically this model that you already described:
"Alternatively, we have a steering committee that steps in to make
decisions, for example about the timing of votes, when there is
disagreement." Having an elected steering committee is common in
other software projects I pay attention to (e.g., Python and Jupyter).
-- William
>
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 9:18:04 PM UTC-7 wst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 8:09 PM John H Palmieri <jhpalm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > The main response I saw to the requests for a slower process was from
>> > David Roe, saying, "Finally, since we're just voting on trac vs github I
>> > don't think there's a need to draw out the discussion until October 1, and
>> > several people (William and Dima) have made arguments for making a
>> > decision more quickly." I find this rather dismissive of the views of
>> > those who requested a more deliberate process. It would be good to have a
>> > procedure for determining timing for votes, something other than one
>> > person just making a decision.
>> >
>> > As a starting point:
>> >
>> > 1. Anyone can call for a vote, and the vote should last at least a week:
>> > it is not reasonable to ask for votes more quickly than that, barring an
>> > emergency that demands very fast action. We call for votes all the time,
>> > e.g. recent decisions about formatting options for Sage documentation, and
>> > there is no reason to make the overall procedure more complicated.
>> > 2. Anyone can then request a delay or an extension of the vote. The
>> > default response should be to accept the delay/extension: "yes, the vote
>> > will now end on ...". If people believe that the delay is unreasonable
>> > ("we need to delay this vote by 25 years") or if they have other reasons
>> > to object, then we can hold a one-week vote, no delays allowed, to decide
>> > whether to accept the delay or not.
>> >
>> > The second point is flawed: what to do if there are multiple requests to
>> > delay? Maybe see if the people making the requests can come to a consensus
>> > about the time. If not, then vote on the shortest proposed delay? The
>> > longest one? The average? (We have a reasonably healthy community, but all
>> > the same, I don't want to create a rule that can be abused: one person
>> > asks for a ridiculous delay, then we hold a one-week vote that fails, then
>> > another person, or even the same person, asks for another ridiculous
>> > delay, etc.)
>> >
>> > Alternatively, we have a steering committee that steps in to make
>> > decisions, for example about the timing of votes, when there is
>> > disagreement.
>> >
>> > Other options?
>>
>> What happens in an academic department (e.g., UW)? For example, what
>> if there is an important department vote about to happen that is
>> brought to the faculty by a committee, and a faculty member states at
>> the faculty meeting: "we should delay this vote for 2 weeks to respect
>> people with a busy schedule, to allow a constructive debate, and to
>> explore all possibilities". Is there a procedure for delaying votes
>> in faculty meetings?
>>
>> I'm just asking because bylaws tend to spell out in detail the answers
>> to questions like this, and it's nice to have a concrete example.
>>
>> I tried searching for examples of delaying votes in US politics, and
>> in Summer 2020, Trump tried very hard to delay the US presidential
>> election:
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+delay+election
>>
>> >
>> > --
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 3:11:12 AM UTC-7 Thierry
>> > (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> several developers asked for delays, to respect people with a busy
>> >> schedule, to allow a constructive debate, to explore all possibilities,
>> >> to move away from the noise and confusion related to a minor event
>> >> [1,2,3,4,5,6].
>> >>
>> >> Democracy is not a race, i wish such a simple and reasonable request to
>> >> be respected.
>> >>
>> >> Ciao,
>> >> Thierry
>> >>
>> >> [1] John : "I don't see a reason to rush a vote"
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/q5V9ov5FAAAJ
>> >>
>> >> [2] Jan : "I don't think the move is so urgent though"
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/0Lk5pzdjBwAJ
>> >>
>> >> [3] Vincent : "For me the discussion in this thread is very premature"
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/ZTXx_speBwAJ
>> >>
>> >> [4] Sébastien : "The urgency of short term issues does not imply the
>> >> urgency of long term issues"
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/B19uBWUJCAAJ
>> >>
>> >> [5] Travis : "First off, we need to slow down significantly as we do not
>> >> have an general clear consensus about doing this move."
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/E3_sU2Y6CAAJ
>> >>
>> >> [6] Thierry : "one month break is a bare minimum."
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/STo_AT9qFgAJ
>> >>
>> > --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> William (http://wstein.org)
>
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William (http://wstein.org)
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