RE: The Hands withholding
-Original Message- From: Brent Poirier Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:35 AM I am interested, not in how God withholds gifts, but in how you friends see that the Hands of the Cause have withheld. Hi Brent, I think the implications of withheld is similar to the passages below. Best wishes, --- Vaughn Afterward it is said: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy,[1] meaning that in that cycle they would be like kings. The law and teachings of Muhammad, and the explanations and commentaries of Ali, are a heavenly bounty; if they wish to give this bounty, they have power to do so. If they do not wish it, the rain will not fall: in this connection rain stands for bounty. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 50) THE Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event. Had they heard, they would not have believed, and thus they were not told! (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 78) Thus hath Sadiq, son of Muhammad, spoken: God verily will test them and sift them. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 255) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Dear Brent, H, you mentioned looking at a particular section in context. My current reference is the document on Ocean - I've misplaced the book. Is there something I've missed that delineates sections of the Surih of the Temple? Fix your gaze upon Him Who is the *Temple of God* amongst men. He, in truth, hath offered up His life as a ransom for the redemption of the world. He, verily, is the All-Bountiful, the Gracious, the Most High. If any differences arise amongst you, behold Me standing before your face, and overlook the faults of one another for My name's sake and as a token of your love for My manifest and resplendent Cause. (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah pg. 315) Baha'u'llah is the Temple; The Living Temple, the Eyes, the Ears, the Tongue. I might well be mistaken in my understanding of this Tablet ... Having conceded that, to my mind, the entire Tablet seems to be the Summons of God addressing The Temple, Baha'u'llah and [then, through Him] those who will become His followers. It flows like dialogue between The Two through the intercession of the Maiden [Holy Spirit]. While I would agree that the term hands as defined in this Tablet, as well as other passages of the Sacred Writings, correllates with the duties of those honored men and women of the Institution, I would disagree that it was, in fact, a direct reference to the future Institution. I hear the Surih of the Temple as broader and more encompassing -an assurance of the charaterics and testament to the strengths of those who will respond to Baha'u'llah's Divine Message -an encouragement if you will. The day is approaching when God will have, by an act of His Will, raised up *a race of men* the nature of which is inscrutable to all save God, the All-Powerful, the Self-Subsisting. He shall purify them from the defilement of idle fancies and corrupt desires, shall lift them up to the heights of holiness, and shall cause them to manifest the signs of His sovereignty and might upon earth. Thus hath it been ordained by God, the All-Glorious, the All-Loving. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts pg.5) The Pen of the Most High hath decreed and imposed upon every one the obligation to teach this Cause God will, no doubt, inspire whosoever detacheth himself from all else but Him, and will cause the pure waters of wisdom and utterance to gush out and flow copiously from his heart. Verily, thy Lord, the All-Merciful, is powerful to do as He willeth, and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 3) Baha'u'llah, it seems, confirms the correlation by bestowing the distinction of Hand on worthy individuals -following this example, Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian, did as well. With regard to the capitalization of Hand, in Shoghi Effendi's translation, I'm more inclined to think he chose to do so because the reference was to the hands of the Divine -figuratively speaking... Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts p.19) CXXXI. The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God's perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. *He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might*, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 286) No sooner had that eternal Beauty revealed Himself in Shiraz, in the year sixty, and rent asunder the veil of concealment, than *the signs of the ascendancy, the might*, the sovereignty, and power, emanating from that Essence of Essences and Sea of Seas, were manifest in every land. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 234) Send down upon them, therefore, O my Lord, that which will unmistakably reveal unto them the fury of Thy wrath and *the ascendancy of Thy power*, and will enable them to recognize *the weight of Thy might* and the greatness of Thy strength. (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 141) Help them through Thy strengthening grace, I beseech Thee, O my God, to suffer patiently in their love for Thee, and unveil to their eyes what Thou hast decreed for them behind the Tabernacle of Thine unfailing protection, so that they may rush forward to meet what is preordained for them in Thy path, and may vie in hasting after tribulation in their love towards Thee. And if not, do Thou, then, *reveal the standards of Thine ascendancy*, and make them to be
RE: The Hands withholding
Vaughn, super job of locating other references to withholding. Thank you, that's right on target and what I was looking for. Sandra, I quite agree that in this Tablet the Manifestation is addressing His own eyes, heart, ears and hands. But then, I believe He transitions into both viewing the Hands of the Cause as His own hands; or alternatively says that He will raise up the Hands of the Cause from His own Hands. In this passage He says just that, and that these Hands -- and from the term these souls He may well mean people -- will demonstrate the divine attributes of strength, might and ascendancy: Gather then Thy servants beneath Thy shade that shadoweth all mankind. Stretch forth the hand of bounty over all creation, and the fingers of bestowal over all existence. This, verily, is that which beseemeth Thee, though the people understand it not. Whosoever turneth his face towards Thee doeth so by Thy grace, and as to him who turneth away, Thy Lord, in truth, is independent of all created things. Unto this bear witness His true and devoted servants. Erelong shall God raise up, through Thee, those with hands of indomitable strength and arms of invincible might, who will come forth from behind the veils, will render the All-Merciful victorious amongst the peoples of the world, and will raise so mighty a cry as to cause all hearts to tremble with fear. Thus hath it been decreed in a Written Tablet. Such shall be the ascendancy which these souls will evince that consternation and dismay will seize all the dwellers of the earth. (The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 22, sections 1.40-1.41)) I note that in the article about the Hands of the Faith written by Paul Haney for Baha'i World Vol. XIII, (p. 333) he begins by quoting this same passage with his own view that it is a significant reference to the Institution of the Hands. I may well be wrong in my views. But it seems to me that the loftiness of the Institution of the Hands is not well grasped, and I'm trying to understand it better. With thanks and best wishes Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
At 13:35 + 5/7/05, Brent Poirier wrote: Sandra, I quite agree that in this Tablet the Manifestation is addressing His own eyes, heart, ears and hands. But then, I believe He transitions into both viewing the Hands of the Cause as His own hands; or alternatively says that He will raise up the Hands of the Cause from His own Hands. In this passage He says just that, and that these Hands -- and from the term these souls He may well mean people -- will demonstrate the divine attributes of strength, might and ascendancy: It has been my understanding that while only specific individuals are part of the Institution of the Hands of the Cause, that being a Hand of the Cause is a station that can potentially be attained by any individual. Don C -- He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Hi Sandra. You ask where I see the Institution of the Hands referred to, or perhaps foreshadowed, in this passage from Baha'u'llah. There are two things. The first is to look at the entire section in context: O Living Temple! Stretch forth Thy hand over all who are in heaven and on earth, and seize within the grasp of Thy Will the reins of command. We have, verily, placed in Thy right hand the empire of all things. Do as Thou willest, and fear not the ignorant. Reach out to the Tablet that hath dawned above the horizon of the pen of Thy Lord, and take hold of it with such strength that, through Thee, the hands of all who inhabit the earth may be enabled to lay fast hold upon it. This, in truth, is that which becometh Thee, if Thou be of those who understand. Through the upraising of Thy hand to the heaven of My grace, the hands of all created things shall be lifted up to their Lord, the Mighty, the Powerful, the Gracious. Erelong shall We raise up, through the aid of Thy hand, other hands endued with power, with strength and might, and shall establish through them Our dominion over all that dwell in the realms of revelation and creation. Thus will the servants of God recognize the truth that there is none other God beside Me, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. With these hands, moreover, We shall both bestow and withhold, though none can understand this save those who see with the eye of the spirit. Say: O people! Can ye ever hope to escape the sovereign power of your Lord? By the righteousness of God! No refuge will ye find in this day, and no one to protect you, save those upon whom God hath bestowed the favour of His mercy. He, verily, is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Compassionate. Say: O people! Forsake all that ye possess, and enter beneath the shadow of your Lord, the All-Merciful. Better is this for you than all your works of the past and of the future. Fear ye God, and deprive not yourselves of the sweet savours of the days of the Lord of all names and attributes. Take heed lest ye alter or pervert the text of the Word of God. Walk ye in the fear of God, and be numbered with the righteous. Say: O people! This is the Hand of God, which hath ever been above your own hands, could ye but understand. Within its grasp We have ordained all the good of the heavens and the earth, such that no good shall be made manifest but that it proceedeth therefrom. Thus have We made it the source and treasury of all good both aforetime and hereafter. Say: The rivers of divine wisdom and utterance which flowed through the Tablets of God are joined to this Most Great Ocean, could ye but perceive it, and whatever hath been set forth in His Books hath attained its final consummation in this most exalted Word -- a Word shining above the horizon of the Will of the All-Glorious in this Revelation which hath filled with delight all things seen and unseen. Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. They will enter the cities and will inspire with fear the hearts of all their inhabitants. Such are the evidences of the might of God; how fearful, how vehement is His might, and how justly doth He wield it! He, verily, ruleth and transcendeth all who are in the heavens and on the earth, and revealeth what He desireth according to a prescribed measure. Should any one of them be called upon to confront all the hosts of creation, he would assuredly prevail through the ascendancy of My Will. This, verily, is a proof of My power, though My creatures comprehend it not. This, verily, is a sign of My sovereignty, though My subjects understand it not. This, verily, is a token of My command, though My servants perceive it not. This, verily, is an evidence of Mine ascendancy, though none amongst the people is truly thankful for it, save those whose eyes God hath illumined with the light of His knowledge, whose hearts He hath made the repository of His Revelation, and upon whose shoulders He hath placed the weight of His Cause. These shall inhale the fragrances of the All-Merciful from the garment of His Name, and shall rejoice at all times in the signs and verses of their Lord. (Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 18-21, Sections 1.31-1.35) It seems to me to parallel this passage from the Will about the Institution of the Hands: The obligations of the Hands of the Cause of God are to diffuse the Divine Fragrances, to edify the souls of men, to promote learning, to improve the character of all men and to be, at all times and under all conditions, sanctified and detached from earthly things. They
re: The Hands withholding
One more thing about the Hands. I have always wondered why, when Shoghi Effendi translated the Master's Will, he inserted the parenthetical phrase (pillars) after the word Hands (pp. 3, 10, 11 and 25). This verse from the Suratu'l-Haykal, part of the same passage I quoted in the previous message, resolves it for me. Pillars hold the weight of a Temple: Should any one of them be called upon to confront all the hosts of creation, he would assuredly prevail through the ascendancy of My Will. This, verily, is a proof of My power, though My creatures comprehend it not. This, verily, is a sign of My sovereignty, though My subjects understand it not. This, verily, is a token of My command, though My servants perceive it not. This, verily, is an evidence of Mine ascendancy, though none amongst the people is truly thankful for it, save those whose eyes God hath illumined with the light of His knowledge, whose hearts He hath made the repository of His Revelation, and upon whose shoulders He hath placed the weight of His Cause. These shall inhale the fragrances of the All-Merciful from the garment of His Name, and shall rejoice at all times in the signs and verses of their Lord. (Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 20-21) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Brent, In like manner, those words that have streamed forth from the source of power and descended from the heaven of glory are innumerable and beyond the ordinary comprehension of man. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 5) Baha'u'llah also states that there are innumerable meanings within the Word. It can be suggested that the hands will withhold KNOWLEDGE, because many people, including Baha'is, couldn't accept what they know. Take the idea of wealth, for example. Most people, including Baha'is, think that having wealth is laudable. But the Writings, as this one reads them, encourages us to EXPEND what God has bestowed upon us, relying totally on Him. The Guardian encouraged us to be like a fountain, being continually replenished from an invisible source. The Bible states that it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to enter heaven. Baha'u'llah states in the 53rd Persian Hidden Word: The rich, but for a few, shall in no wise attain the court of His presence nor enter the city of content and resignation. In the Kitab-i-Ahd, He states: In earthly riches, fear is hidden and peril concealed. The Bab states, in the 9th prayer under the heading of Spiritual Qualities, that: Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance. Yet many Baha'is will show near reference to a wealthy Baha'i and laud his or her accomplishments. It is not being suggested that means are not necessary, just that they are designed to be EXPENDED, rather than saved up for a rainy daywe must learn to rely on God and not feel that we need to save for a rainy day. This one suggests that there are other hidden meanings that have been discovered and that the hands are probably witholding knowledge.true spiritual insight. Just an opinion. James From: Brent Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Subject: The Hands withholding Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:35:29 - In the Suratu'l-Haykal, Baha'u'llah writes of the Hands: O Living Temple! Stretch forth Thy hand over all who are in heaven and on earth, and seize within the grasp of Thy Will the reins of command. We have, verily, placed in Thy right hand the empire of all things. Do as Thou willest, and fear not the ignorant. Reach out to the Tablet that hath dawned above the horizon of the pen of Thy Lord, and take hold of it with such strength that, through Thee, the hands of all who inhabit the earth may be enabled to lay fast hold upon it. This, in truth, is that which becometh Thee, if Thou be of those who understand. Through the upraising of Thy hand to the heaven of My grace, the hands of all created things shall be lifted up to their Lord, the Mighty, the Powerful, the Gracious. Erelong shall We raise up, through the aid of Thy hand, other hands endued with power, with strength and might, and shall establish through them Our dominion over all that dwell in the realms of revelation and creation. Thus will the servants of God recognize the truth that there is none other God beside Me, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. With these hands, moreover, We shall both bestow and withhold, though none can understand this save those who see with the eye of the spirit. . . . Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. (The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 18-19) I am interested, not in how God withholds gifts, but in how you friends see that the Hands of the Cause have withheld. Thanks very much Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Brent: ...With these hands, moreover, We shall both bestow and withhold, though none can understand this save those who see with the eye of the spirit.' ... snip I am interested, not in how God withholds gifts, but in how you friends see that the Hands of the Cause have withheld. Dear Brent, Thank you for unintentionally calling me to the Suriy-i-Haykal this day. I've been pondering pages 3-54 most of the afternoon. I was a bit confused by your question - in particular the relationship of the Institution of the Hands of the Cause withholding anything ... to these particular passages. Can you clarify where you see the connection ? Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts p.19) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
