Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC. For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt: http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/ He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development phone. He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). Justyn. ps. At this point I'd like to say that I'd seriously consider paying up to $200 extra for a 3.5G-enabled OpenMoko phone (which, per the speech, is what it would cost). But I definitely can't order 50,000 of them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone buying a non-3G Openmoko phone. What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!). While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all. I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. I guess you mean the Glamo and that kind of thing. The GSM firmware cannot become open source, can it? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
This is all very interesting (and sad, of course). 2008/12/22 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com: less than 1/3 the cost. as best i know anyone selling pre-made 3g modules so you dont have to set up your own production is charging in the range of $100-$300 per module (depending who you go to and the volume you buy). this is where someone developed the module (did what nokia/apple etc. do) and now re-sell their work. 1-offs i have seen for sale for $250 or so for a 3g module. buy in bulk and you get a discount of course (thus the $100-$300 range). and the fewer suppliers in between the better. The Telit UC864-G mentioned on the MokoForesight page is a global 3.5G module with built-in GPS. I don't know of it's actual suitability for OM. http://www.telit.com/en/products/umts-hsdpa.php?p_id=14p_ac=showp=14 This company, Round Solutions, sells it: http://www.roundsolutions.com/uc864.htm And they have a price list: http://www.roundsolutions.com/pdf/Price-Modules-GSM.pdf Which lists it at €145 for 100-500 quantity. That is around US $200. Clearly very expensive. But the quantity we are talking about Openmoko buying is at least an order of magnitude larger, so I wonder how much below $200 the module could be bought. And it does integrate the GPS chip (a small saving there though). Anyway, I thought some people might be interested in a solid example with pricing. It is costly, that is for sure. I'd still be interested to see how much the UC864-G costs when buying in bulk of 10K. Can anyone else find figures for this? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
2008/12/18 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org: My practical experience is: a) in areas (urban) where you have HSDPA speed, you also have WiFi hotspots b) in all other areas (more rural) your connection falls back to GPRS anyway So, a phone that combines GPRS and WiFi is a little more difficult to connect to the correct network but has no dramatically worse connectivity than real 3G. It depends a lot on where you are in the world. Here in the UK HSDPA coverage is already extremely good, and I can get it for as little as £10 (15 USD) a month, or £15/month for more data than I ever use. Basically everywhere I go supports HSDPA, and it costs me no extra to use it whenever I like (and in those spots without HSDPA it seamlessly drops to lower speed connections). When I am out and about there may well be wifi hotspots nearby - but you almost always have to pay for them, so in reality I end up not using them. I realize that in some other parts of the world 3.5G coverage/expense is not so good (ie the USA). But these places are catching up fast (thanks to the newer iPhone etc), and as they do, the demand for this amazing ability to have flat-rate broadband internet wherever you go will increase. I think it is the case that many people don't realize how useful and enabling it is until they have it. Almost all the latest big-brand smartphones support HSDPA (there are a couple of exceptions, but have a Google, seriously). I am worried, because as this trend towards 3G increases throughout 2009, Openmoko will be left looking like a poor choice in more parts of the world. Of the three friends who were very enthusiastic about Openmoko with me for many years, one has now gone for the G1 (Android phone) and another got an iPhone - both with flat rate HSDPA. I know there are plenty of people like yourself (Dr Schaller) who don't feel the need for HSDPA, so if the GTA03 costs more because it has connectivity unneccessary to them they are less likely to buy it. This is an important point. But there is also a proportion of people who won't buy the phone because it can't support HSDPA data plans (but would otherwise - I know people in this group). This group will of course continue to increase in number in 2009 and there will be more open source Android phones coming out, and Nokia even hinting that they might use Linux in some phones [1]. I fear that once most open source enthusiasts have embraced Android (or Maemo) for their phones, they are much less likely to care about the extra freedom Openmoko can offer them (even when it eventually includes the more advanced connectivity), which is a shame. So I feel now is quite a critical time for OM in terms of mindshare. But if 3G hardware and royalties cost too much, then perhaps OM has little choice. And that's just life. We'll make the best of it. [1] http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5340331149.html See also: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
2008/12/18 Michael Zanetti michael_zane...@gmx.net: As It seems this thread is becoming more and more some sort of a whish-list, I will put my 2ct here also: - Please don't add a camera: Has ever anyone made a picture with a mobile phone camera that doesn't suck? Get a real camera if you want to make some nice pictures! There is just one way to get a useful camera within a mobile phone: Using very expensive optical lens and zooming technologies. But in that case, I'd prefer to use the money for a 3G modem which brings me to the next point in my whishlist. I think this is a misunderstanding of the concept of having a camera in a phone. For many people it is the convenience of *always* having a camera on them. Who knows when you need to take a picture? It doesn't matter if the picture sucks - they have a real camera for quality photos. But they don't have it on them all the time. Furthermore, as Raster points out, for some people the better cameraphones actually do suit their needs *well enough* to replace a normal camera (my gf is one of these). There will always be a large group of people for whom this will never be the case, I know. I say this as someone who would personally gladly do without the camera in place of 3G. But doing this might turn off a whole other group of people, because some sort of camera is such an expected thing in a phone these days. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
2008/12/18 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:08:09 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org babbled: i'm taking usage pattern into account - and when i'm @ wifi.. i also have a keyboard, screen and real machine to use... so if i want to check something/google for it or whatever - i use something more comfortable. when i'm walking down the street and go crap... what was X again? i forgot and i want to check... or i need a map of where i am and where i have to go... or need to check to see if the competitors store is selling for less... there is no wifi. there is no lan. there *IS* 3g - even at the beach. and the park. and pretty much everywhere i go 99% of the time... there is 3g. This is exactly what I wanted to write but wasted a billion words failing to, thank you Raster! That's why 3G is important! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
I'll just take this opportunity to politely wave a sign for everyone who thinks the GTA03 needs 3G. - Replace the mc75i with a 3.5G modem! Go on, surprise us all! - | | | I wave it on their behalf because they've all left me here while they buy the Android phone. That is all. Justyn. 2008/12/17 Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: That would shine a light on the what is a small... definition! Orange label: WARNING: if it fits, it IS small! :) Maybe we should 3nl4rge the hole. There's pills for that on the internet (and all over my INBOX). -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any progress on the Telit UC864 3.5G modem?
If you're talking about physically replacing the TI Calypso modem on the Freerunner board with a 3G modem, I'm afraid you misunderstand. This is not at all possible. I am asking about the research into the Telit modem for a future Openmoko device. 2008/12/9 Will Siddall [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please, has anyone looked further into this? I do a lot of travelling into countries that use 3G only networks and being able to swap the existing GSM module with this one would save me A LOT of hassle. What's the concensus and for those who have tried: how hard is it to swap and get it running? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Sargun Dhillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of those modular devices, correct? Does this mean there is a chance of being able to swap in a CDMA module? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Justyn Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, It's been quite a while since the MokoForesight page was updated, so I was wondering whether any more research went into the Telit UC864G modem (3.5G with integrated GPS). On the MokoForesight page it says: Detailed documentation on Web. Can get even more documentation from reseller. First impression is good. UC864G includes all known bands and GPS receiver (saves more space complications). Which all sounded quite promising. Did it turn out to be a dead end? Regards, Justyn. ___ devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/devel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any progress on the Telit UC864 3.5G modem?
2008/12/9 Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Justyn, lots of changes in our hardware team, we hired some great new engineers, Adam Wang (production engineer), Ivorin Chen (layout engineer), Tully Gehan (mechanical engineer), Eva Lin (project coordinator). Working on more... Good to hear! As for MokoForesight, Shawn Lin left a while ago, so the whole idea is 'suspended' right now. WSOD is fixed so I'm sure it will resume properly at some point ;-) Also good to hear that this research team might start up again. Telit has some great modules, we are not pursuing this any further at this moment, but there is a good chance we will at some point. I hope so. The sooner the cellular connectivity of the OM devices can be brought up-to-date, the better. Hope this helps, Best Regards, Wolfgang Thank you for this update. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Expressing hope that the next-gen Openmoko hardware might support 3G/3.5G/HSDPA when it arrives
2008/11/14 Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How does all this relate to GTA03? Well, on one hand internally we work around the clock as if we are trying to start mass production of GTA03 next month. Sean would certainly love to mass produce improved hardware _ANY TIME_ :-) Sean always pushes us to work faster and get things done. On the other hand it's such a huge task. A 100% free and open mobile platform. Thousands of details. And a very small internal engineering force. I have around 30 internal engineers. The typical mobile platform (Nokia/Symbian, WinMobile/HTC, Android/HTC, RIMM, Apple) has over 1000. Is Openmoko planning to hire the missing 970? No. We can only hire very carefully as the current sales of GTA02 allow us to do. Otherwise we would endanger the openness of the platform. The other 970 must come from our community, and increasingly they are. So by buying Freerunners, fixing or writing up bugs, helping to document more aspects of the phone, you help us all get to GTA03 faster. When will GTA03 come out? You tell me. You, and the rest of the community influence it more than you can imagine. We have decided to make changes to the hardware only incrementally, along product lines of our current chip vendors whenever possible, so that as much as possible of the software effort can carry over. We have decided to focus our internal software engineering on the low level, so that we leverage our insider knowledge about the hardware and schematics, while relying on the larger Free Software community to help with higher-level software. You say the current software is a 'joke', which is painful for me but I accept it. From where we all want to be it's a joke, yes. Agreed. So that also answers your question when GTA03 will come out. It's a long way, maybe another year. I personally find the news that Openmoko are focusing on the Freerunner and the current software stack, rather than pushing the next model out of the door, very reassuring. It is great for all the people who have supported Openmoko by buying a Freerunner. However if Openmoko do release the next model later than originally thought it will delay when the generation after it (GTA04) is brought out. So I'm still holding onto the hope that they might swap out the new EDGE modem in the upcoming GTA03 for a 3.5G/HSDPA device instead. The later that the GTA03 comes out to buy, the bigger a deal it will be if it doesn't support 3G (and 3.5G) technologies. I understand that there are multiple factors at stake here, but I do hope Openmoko are giving the connectivity of the phone the weighting it deserves. For some parts of the world 3.5G is still unimportant due to lack of good, affordable HSDPA access. Some people cannot understand why others make such a big fuss about it. However, for an increasing portion of the market it is becoming expected in any new smart phone. And please believe me, I understand that everyone has their own personal wishlist of things that they think it is important to have in the new Openmoko hardware. And while I may feel that the connectivity of the device is of special importance because it is a phone, others will disagree. But I have a feeling that the 3G supporters have become a little underrepresented in the community because so many people for whom it is a critical feature have moved on from Openmoko, saying I'll check back in a couple of years, because we have been told that 3G won't be in the next-generation device either. And what is the point of staying involved if it will be literally years before there is a model that meets this essential (for those in this category) need. I have several friends who are enthusiastic Linux users and supporters (and developers) of open hardware, and Openmoko. But two have already given in and invested in HSDPA enabled phones (one bought, to our surprise, an iPhone). They don't check the OM mailing lists or make their voice heard. They have moved on. Yet they would still buy from Openmoko if it surprised them with an open hardware + FOSS phone with HSDPA. So this email is about making sure that it is known that there is a market of people who have suspended their hope in OM for the time being but will come rushing back once it can offer 3.5G (I pretty much use the terms 3G, 3.5G and HSDPA interchangeably as Apple seem to). I know that Harald Welte is a big supporter of better connectivity in Openmoko and is working in his spare time to get a proprietary 3.5G phone running the Openmoko stack (see his blog post here: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/11/11/#2008-glofiish_m800 ). This might turn out to be a fix for some of us but we would still not feel we were supporting Openmoko properly - we want to buy the hardware from them. Regards, Justyn. ps. I am a Neo1973 owner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lemmings
Pingus is really great fun with a touchscreen - I used to play it on a tablet PC. It's easier than using a mouse because you just tap the action button (ie dig) and then tap each of the penguins you want to start digging/etc. If someone gets it going on the Neo I may never get anything done ever again. 2008/8/31 Konstantin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jean-Eric Cuendet schrieb: Hi, Do you know a Lemmings clne for Linux? Would it work on Openmoko? Thanks -jec There's pingus (http://pingus.seul.org), which is quite nice IMHO. I think it uses libsdl, so it should be possible to port/recompile it, but I didn't really look into the dependencies, yet. Maybe someone more experienced in sdl-programming could do that? :) Regards, Konstantin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
2008/6/10 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i'd love a better cpu - better memory bus and much more. right now the only thing we have is gta03 - same cpu as freerunner etc etc. just different gsm subsystem (2g/edge) and no glamo (dumb 2442 fb), new case, added camera. Hi, Maybe this was a typo, but are you saying that the current plan is to ditch the existing GSM subsystem yet replace it with a modem that can't even handle 3G? That sounds crazy! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
2008/6/10 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Not at all. First, 03 is about evolution, so change as few parts as possible. Sorry I didn't make it clearer, but what I find so surprising is that the GSM subsystem IS being changed but the opportunity to upgrade to 3G is not being taken. Raster said just different gsm subsystem (2g/edge). If it were being kept identical to GTA02 to keep changes to a minimum it would not sound crazy. 2nd, there are hardly any UMTS modules available on the component market that would attach to serial and fit size- and powerconsumption wide. 3rd, there are insane advance license fees to pay for 3G products. This makes the decision seem much more reasonable, thank you. Very sad news though. Justyn. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
All of the geeks that I have shown my GTA01 to have been in awe of it's high-res VGA screen. Whatever direction OpenMoko wants to go in, I'm sure geeks will always be a large part of their target demographic. To touch on Gabriel's comment, WVGA would be the same resolution as the Nokia N800 series but in a more compact screen. With that resolution perhaps the GTA03 would start tapping into other unexpected markets - for example some of the people who like the internet tablets and also eee-PC type devices. It would contribute to an incredible portable web-browsing experience (which is what those other devices are designed for, and why they sell) but in the GTA03 it would be built into your phone (which makes it the most portable of all). Justyn. 2008/6/5 rakshat hooja [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost) since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if the speed of qvga is worth the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure. I have a Sharp 903 with qvga, 2.4 inch, Nokia N95 with qvga, 2.4 inch and the Neo 1973 with VGA, 2.8 inch. By far the best screen for reading is the Sharp one. On closer examination you can see pixels which you dont on the Neo but the display just feels better, crisper and better on the eyes. When you view higher res photos the Neo display seems better but not by much. The N95 is also good when you look at it on its own and one has no problems reading anything but when kept next to the Neo 1973 and Sharp 903 one can tell the display is not in the same league. (the Sharp is also visible in the sun though I dont think its trans-reflective) The point I am trying to make is that the quality of LCM being used matters as much as qvga or vga. Qvga is sufficient for almost all needs on a mobile phone size device and would be great if it provides cost and speed improvements. But it has to be a really good quality QVGA. Personally I love the resolution and form factor of the PSP Slim LCM and would love to see something similar on GTA0X. Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
I forgot to mention that not only is WVGA (800 x 480) the resolution of Nokia's N800 series internet tablets but also the Asus Eee PC (original), which is a tiny laptop for web browsing and has surprised the world by selling so well. Drool over this engadget post from 2006 about a 2.9 inch WVGA display: http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/27/hitachi-does-800-x-480-display-for-phones/ 2008/6/6 Justyn Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All of the geeks that I have shown my GTA01 to have been in awe of it's high-res VGA screen. Whatever direction OpenMoko wants to go in, I'm sure geeks will always be a large part of their target demographic. To touch on Gabriel's comment, WVGA would be the same resolution as the Nokia N800 series but in a more compact screen. With that resolution perhaps the GTA03 would start tapping into other unexpected markets - for example some of the people who like the internet tablets and also eee-PC type devices. It would contribute to an incredible portable web-browsing experience (which is what those other devices are designed for, and why they sell) but in the GTA03 it would be built into your phone (which makes it the most portable of all). Justyn. 2008/6/5 rakshat hooja [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost) since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if the speed of qvga is worth the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure. I have a Sharp 903 with qvga, 2.4 inch, Nokia N95 with qvga, 2.4 inch and the Neo 1973 with VGA, 2.8 inch. By far the best screen for reading is the Sharp one. On closer examination you can see pixels which you dont on the Neo but the display just feels better, crisper and better on the eyes. When you view higher res photos the Neo display seems better but not by much. The N95 is also good when you look at it on its own and one has no problems reading anything but when kept next to the Neo 1973 and Sharp 903 one can tell the display is not in the same league. (the Sharp is also visible in the sun though I dont think its trans-reflective) The point I am trying to make is that the quality of LCM being used matters as much as qvga or vga. Qvga is sufficient for almost all needs on a mobile phone size device and would be great if it provides cost and speed improvements. But it has to be a really good quality QVGA. Personally I love the resolution and form factor of the PSP Slim LCM and would love to see something similar on GTA0X. Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
2008/4/29 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... Michael Shiloh is the community manager - he keeps the community updated so the devs don't have to take time off from developing to do it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko
I use GTD with Tracks, an open source and web-based Getting Things Done implementation. The new version, 1.5, is particularly awesome. http://www.rousette.org.uk/projects/ Once I can persuade my Neo1973 to access the internet, my own Tracks site will no doubt be the most frequently visited site on the device. I always have a Firefox tag open with Tracks in while I'm at my computer. Hosted options exist, and the 1.5 version includes a mobile interface (that I haven't tried out yet). Justyn. On 19/04/2008, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been reading a book lately called Getting Things Done(henceforth abbreviated as GTD) which basically proposes a strategy for organizing/managing your work and life to be more productive with less stress. Instead of me attempting to explain it any more, a summary of the ideas behind GTD can be found on the author's website: http://www.davidco.com/what_is_gtd.php and a wikipedia entry for good measure ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_Things_Done I'm still working on fully implementing these ideas (been setting up my filing/reference system lately), but it seems to me a device running Openmoko would be the perfect place to do much of this organizing/planning/management. And while I'm certainly not holding out for my Freerunner before trying these methods, I do think it could make a great addition to this system. So I've basically been thinking, what would the ideal(killer) application for GTD look like? Since I'm still a newbie to GTD, it's not even completely clear to me what this app should be. What specific features would be required? Are there currently any applications for Openmoko that come close? Would it be good to start a project for a GTD-specifc app? I will explain some of the ideas I have in mind, but hopefully some other people on this list have read the book and been using this system for a while and they can chime in with some more input. One thing that I think is emphasized in the book is that whatever implementation you use for GTD, it should strive to be simple and even fun to use, because you want to make a habit of using it and staying organized, rather than finding yourself loathing and avoiding it. I can think of at least two main things that could be useful for GTD on Openmoko: 1) Calendar reminders (this is already available in Openmoko from what I've read :-D ) 2) Lists: specifically *Context Sensitive* Lists It seems large part of GTD is simply about making lists: One aspect is listing all projects you are committed to, and defining the next action steps required to push each project towards completion. Another aspect of GTD is that you need to be reminded of things to do, but only in the appropriate context. Depending on the situation you are in, you need to be able to see a list of relevant tasks that need to be completed: At your phone, you might want to check a list of calls you need to make(calls might also go on a calendar if they need to be at specific times). In your car, you might want to check a list of errands you need to run. At home, you might want to check a list of things that can only be accomplished at home. At a computer, ... etc. What do you think? -Hans Loeblich ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?
On 15/04/2008, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: QWERTY keyboards and appropriate cases are, I believe, produced already, and can be subcontracted. There is no surprise in a QWERTY keyboard. There was also FIC's plan to produce *a number* of devices, based on the hardware that is currently being finalized. I hope that one of them will be a device with a real keyboard, and I think it appropriate for me to show that there is support for such a device. It would be great to see the next generation of Openmoko hardware fork into two devices to help satisfy the more opposing types of requirements from the community. One could perhaps be as small as possible, and lower cost. The other might go for extra features like a keyboard, camera, two sim cards etc. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
In the time since Openmoko originally announced it's phone without 3G support and now, as the Freerunner is approaching release, it has become more of an issue that it does not have 3G (how much of an issue we can debate, certainly). So please, *please* bear in mind that when talking about the next generation of Moko hardware, it's not merely the state of things now that we are concerned about. Will it be embarrassing if yet again Openmoko trails in the communications capabilities of it's device (compared to proprietary smartphones)? I really feel that the next generation should support HSDPA (sometimes called 3.5G). It does not have support in all countries but almost every new smartphone coming out supports it because there are plenty of countries that *do* offer it. In the UK T-Mobile now bundles 3G and HSDPA together in it's web n walk (unlimited data) packages - you don't get them in separate price plans. And lastly please bear in mind that a HSDPA modem still supports 3G, GPRS, GSM etc so nobody misses out. Justyn. On 07/04/2008, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On ma, 2008-04-07 at 14:00 +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner Interesting choice of words; this discourages everyone who doesn't think 3G is essential from voting, even though the vote itself has other choices. :] Personally, for my two cents, for the successor it pretty much is essential. I will buy at least one if not two Freerunners into my family (having already one 1973). The GPRS will provide basic connectivity well enough; having a slow net is infinitely better than none at all. For the successor to be an attractive enough _upgrade_ to that, it'll pretty much have to have 3G (UMTS). EDGE, not really worth it, unless it's somehow a lot sexier in other ways. And there is the thing that they're already starting to talk about running down the 2G networks here in Finland... (Sure, it'll be just talk for years, but anyway, for confidence in longevity and all that jazz.) Oh yeah, in light of what they're talking about replacing it in rural areas, 900 MHz support for UMTS would be nice as well ;P Now, for HSDPA, it isn't really essential (though obviously _nice_). Basic old-school 384k UMTS would be quite an okay tradeoff. Anyway, for now, still anxious for the Freerunner. Cheerio. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email App
Is there any kind of app for sending and receiving SMS (text) messages yet? Or does it still have to be done using AT commands as the wiki suggests? On 20/11/2007, Enno Gottox Boland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought tinymail would do this job. 2007/11/20, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Uhm, I haven't heard anything about anyone making one, but i was thinking of playing around with sms/email stuff in python when i get my neo when the gta02 is out. Or if anyone else are doing anything in python, i would like to help. -Kristoffer Tim Shannon skrev: I'm curious if anyone knows that status of an Email app. I though originally there was going to be one app that handled all communication, SMS, internet chat, email, etc, but I haven't seen anything like this with the new 2007.2 framework. Is anyone working on this, or what will the status of this app be around December when the gta02 (hopefully) goes up for sale? thanks, ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.gnuffy.org - Real Community Distro http://www.gnuffy.org/index.php/GnuEm - Gnuffy on Ipaq (Codename Peggy) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: google open phone platform
The base platform from OHA will be being kept open, under Apache2, which means we will be able to make our open source apps run on phones running that platform easily. This increases the chance that our apps will be adopted by big companies on their phones. So this is good news for open source mobile software! Also please remember that Apache 2 is compatible with GPLv3 (not v2). See here for the Free Software Foundation statement about Apache2: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/#apache2 And here for the FSF definition of software compatibility. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/compat.html The compatibility is only one-way. So we can use bits of the Open Handset Alliance code, which is Apache2, in our GPLv3 software. But they can't use ours in there code. Justyn On 05/11/2007, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/5/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was FIC's window 6-8 months ago but now when the industry stalwarts are crashing at your door it's time to close up shop, sit on the beach and think of the next coolest thing. I would not be advising FIC to give up yet. A big consortium, especially one including the likes of Motorola, isn't likely to be moving that fast. There's plenty of time for some cross-pollination. After whatever they have now has been fully revealed, I doubt we will see much change for a couple years. Their new ideas can inspire some of our future ones, too. The trouble is they work hard in secret for a couple years and then make a big splash, whereas in the free software world we make incremental small improvements more slowly (and take some steps backwards sometimes too). The sneaking around is the annoying part - it's all about helping their bottom line and market perception rather than being about freedom. If this plan were known before, it could have had some positive effects on this project. I'm guessing they just made some improvements to Java to improve the performance to the point that it could actually be practical. No reason the new improved VM couldn't run on FIC phones. And it helps that Sun's versions of Java are more fully open-source now. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wired Test article on the lazy phone industry mentions OpenMoko
[via Cool Tools http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002009.php] Download the Wired Test issue here: http://kk.org/cooltools/WD200711ZA.pdf This issue of Wired Test has an article (starts on page 7 of the PDF) called Phone Freaking, complaining about wireless carriers protecting their antediluvian business. It mentions the OpenMoko project. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
I'll understand whatever delays or problems OpenMoko throws at me, or rather us. As far as I'm concerned we're all in it together, and I understand that we're all learning as we go along. But the continual lack of clear communication from the top is so demoralizing. If we are all in this together, then why are we being treated like this? I'm disappointed that Sean (or someone else) has not been giving us frequent updates to keep us informed. Just three paragraphs every few days would be enough for me to feel in the loop. Instead I'm left confused. Will those of us who haven't been charged yet get a GTA01 soon or will we be waiting until September? Or October? What is actually going on? Justyn On 06/08/07, Alan McSwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neo 1973 is sold out By Jouston Huang Neo1973 - OpenMoko After weeks hard work and a lot of complains from my wife. We sold out our Neo 1973 now. In fact, if you place order now. The ETA will be almost October 2007 AND... Sold out! Please note that due to unexpected high demand, even at this early development stage, our quantities up to and including August 2007 are already oversold. This means that any orders placed now will not be shipping before September 10, 2007. We ask for your understanding. Your credit card will only be charged immediately before delivery. This is --simply unacceptable-- and not enough information for people who have recently ordered. FIC --MUST-- do a better job of communicating with thier developers/customers. Those folks who have placed orders that will not be getting a device until October --MUST-- be contacted immediately via email and given the option to cancel their orders. I ordered back on July 24th and have not received ANY follow-on status on my order, and I'm sure there are lots of other folks being equally ignored as well. What are we supposed to think about this news??? Am I one of the oversold We have all been exceedingly patient with this project and we deserve a reasonable level of communication about the status of our orders. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
On 06/08/07, Martin Straub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I do agree with your point. But it is not professionalism that I'd like to see, just a little more communication. It does seem that you've had more contact from them than some of us. I have avoided contacting OpenMoko directly because I do not want to add any strain to their already stretched resources by making them communicate individually with each worried customer. I expect(ed) any information that they knew and could tell us would be given to us as a whole. Justyn p.s. I received the following mail I assume was meant for the list: On 06/08/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wholeheartedly agree that simply complaining that we haven't got a handset yet or won't for a while is of no use. But the people effectively saying stop whining and shut up are tellingly not in the following situation that some of us do find ourselves in: * We ordered a phone weeks ago and have not been charged yet. * We have received no word whatsoever from OpenMoko that our order has, will or won't be accepted. * We worry about keeping the money free in our bank accounts so OpenMoko can use it at some point (if they do it could come out at any moment). * We suddenly find out, completely indirectly, that OpenMoko have apparently sold out of GTA01 phones. No word from the team saying Sorry, we've sold out, so we can't get you a phone for a while, or at all or We're only not accepting new orders, so yours will still be shipped soon. Zip. I agree that this is a huge problem that most certainly must be fixed. I am sorry if my comments earlier felt condescedning. I was trying to direct my comments to the people who are not in the above situation but still feel the need to complain. So will we be charged? Will we get a GTA01 phone? It's a lot of money and we've been extremely patient. Let me make this crystal clear: I will NOT be annoyed or upset if I don't receive a handset for a long time. I'll cooperate and support OpenMoko all the way. But keep us informed! This total lack of clear communication is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, and seems to be getting worse instead of better. I simply cannot accept that the web shop could not be used to contact us and tell us what will, or even MIGHT, be going to happen with our order. Or that Sean cannot spend just 5 mins every few days keeping the community updated - just on what he knows. I also thought that Sean would have made a comment by now. I wonder why he has not. So sorry if I have offended anyone it was not my intent. I just wanted to cut out some of the people who had not ordered phone but where complaining about the situation. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
It is a nice story. It's good to hear they're still in business. However, at the risk (too late!) of sounding like a broken record, your reply is condescending and misses the point like some others here. On 06/08/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After about 3 months the skull finally arrived, and it was indeed *really* *cool*. I still have it, and the company is still in business: skullduggery.com. (Just noticed that they have a 1/4 size Tyrannosaurus rex skull that also looks *really* *cool*...) Sometimes good things take a while :-) No need to get excited. The problem is not how long it takes to get the handset. The problem is we're not being told what's going on at all. This is a completely legitimate concern. Money could be taken out of my account at any moment, or it might in a month, or not at all. It's a really large sum of money for me, and here I am (along with others) not knowing: * When or if my card will be charged. * If by the time I receive it, the GTA02 will be about to come out. More fundamentally though is not even these particular questions, but that we're repeatedly being left in the dark and having to scrounge for information about what is going on. Martin Straub raised a good point though. I haven't actually contacted OpenMoko directly about my order. I felt I had good reason not to - I didn't want to put extra strain on them as I felt sure they'd be receiving lots of such inquiries and probably couldn't tell us anything - after all, if they were able to tell us about our order status, they would already have done that, right? I've contacted them now through the web shop request tracker. Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
I had to make a change to my order after the ARE_YOU_SURE emails were sent out so I canceled it and made a new one. At that point the order process had a checkbox saying I have been warned! I didn't get an ARE_YOU_SURE email for the new order - I assume the checkbox was in place of this, and orders like mine will still be processed. Could I get some confirmation of this please? Thank you, Justyn. On 24/07/07, William Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: projects of interest? - mebot
Really loving this idea. I currently use RTM (rememberthemilk.com) for GTD - it has a great web interface. As soon as I can (won't be that soon) I'll start looking at how feasible a RTM plugin for Mebot might be. Justyn ps. sorry for all the acronyms On 18/07/07, Emre Turkay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm planning to use it to implement a GTD[1] utility. Imagine an application showing an action to do. There are three buttons, done (I've done it delete from the queue), defer (defer it to a later time), cancel (there is no need to do this anymore, or it requires further thinking). When any one of these buttons is clicked the next action item brought forward. Now, imagine, combining this with GPS. In this case, it shows me stuff I should do at home, when I'm home and stuff I should do at work, when I'm at work. Pop up my feed-reader when I'm traveling, etc. Consider there is a simple market-list application, in which I note the stuff I need to buy from market, time to time. When I approach to the market moko starts an audio alert and tells me to stop by the market to buy stuff. When I enter the market automatically pops up my market list. I'm thinking about a plug-in architecture so you can extend this idea as far as it goes, bugzilla integration, mail client integration, web browser integration, integration with an outliner/mindmapper, project planner, tomboy, etc. Every new plug-in will open a door to another cool idea. Started to write it a couple weeks ago, got a sourceforge account[2]. There is a very trivial demonstration application on subversion and as a tarball download. If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd [2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net emre On 7/17/07, Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the projects of interest for people? I am interested in working on kid's phones. I have wanted a kid's phone that was not as brain-dead as the phones that are currently targeted at children. I like that the Neo1973 has a secure tether point. I want the phone to be tethered to my kid's backpack or clothing so it can't be lost or stolen. In terms of software, I want to work on GPS related things. It would be good to know where my kids are and when they exit certain zones, e.g., school. --Dan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cannot reply to the email with YES_I_DO so I have ordered again
I am and it in fact turns out that simply specifying the reply-to address as the email used during ordering works fine too. I have now used this method to cancel my original order. There were a few issues that made me decide it would be less hassle to re-order: 1) I would have had to spoof email all further communications, which would be a pain (as it turns out just setting the reply-to would have worked, which isn't such a big deal). 2) I needed to change the order because I originally ordered two phones - one for a friend - but he backed out after the are you sure email. In fact I got this from the Web Shop when I eventually canceled the first order: Most likely you either asked them to cancel your order, or it was neccessary as part of a change (we can't change orders, we can only cancel them and you can place a new one). So it would have been the only option anyway. Justyn. On 16/07/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Justyn Butler wrote: Mail sent to @ gmail.com http://gmail.com rather than @ googlemail.com http://googlemail.com still reaches me, but it will not allow me to send from @gmail.com http://gmail.com. You seem to be unaware of the fact that unsigned emails can be trivially spoofed? From what I've read, the openmoko servers do not seem to look at SPF records so there shouldn't be a problem. -Sven Neuhaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Cannot reply to the email with YES_I_DO so I have ordered again
I accidentally originally ordered my OpenMoko using the email [EMAIL PROTECTED] when my email address is actually [EMAIL PROTECTED](explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#United_Kingdom). Mail sent to @gmail.com rather than @googlemail.com still reaches me, but it will not allow me to send from @gmail.com. I assume it is because of this that when I contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with [rt.internal.openmoko.org #] I get an error RT could not load a valid user, and RT's configuration does not allow for the creation of a new user for your email. So I just get an error when I reply and say YES_I_DO to the email asking me if I'm absolutely sure I want this developer preview. Rather than try to spoof the @gmail.com email address, I am ignoring that order and have placed another one using the correct email address. I hope that if I now cannot get a phone from the first batch I will be given an opportunity to cancel rather than wait another month for more to be manufactured. I also hope I don't receive two orders! Justyn. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 colors
(Not receiving list emails at the moment due to the server problems, replying to this message found on the web archives). Just want to add that this is pretty important to me too, I've ordered two phones (one for a friend) and I'll be disappointed if they're the wrong color. I've tried twice to email about my order to ask for the black phones, including the string [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1234] in the subject as instructed in the we received your order email, but both times get a rt could not load a valid user error reply message. Justyn Tom wrote: On the online shot it is now possible to choose the color of the neo when ordering, but is there any news for us that have already ordered before ones before this. And is there an estimate date when the confirmation e-mail will be sent, cause with the last days mailling list bug, I don't known if it was send and not received or just not already sent. Thanks Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: order confirmation numbers
I'm in exactly the same boat, I didn't specify that I want black/silver, but when I try to write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the rt.internal... string in I get the same error/ Justyn On 12/07/07, Visti Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the advanced unit was only depicted in black/silver I did't write any note regarding the colour of the unit. As this has changed I tried to write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (with the [rt.internal.openmoko.org #18xx] included in the subject), telling them that I liked the black/silver combination. (And querying about the status of the order confirmation) This only gave me an e-mail with the subject Could not load a valid user And the message: RT could not load a valid user, and RT's configuration does not allow for the creation of a new user for your email. Have tried to write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] without the request tracker code, no error nor reply... I hope my order isn't lost inside there system somehow as I want the unit quite badly. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Debug board and Advanced accessories
It's been asked before but I didn't see a conclusive answer. Will the extra gear, like the debug board, being sold with the GTA01B_v4 Advanced set definitely be the same as will be sold with the GTA02 Advanced? I'd like to get the 01 Advanced then just buy the 02 Base, without missing out on anything in the 02 Advanced. Also, what are the chances of the debug connector being standard (ie compatible) across future FIC OpenMoko phones? cheers, Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Schematics/PCB
On 21/02/07, Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's another reason to NOT release, some companies like to charge for repairing or for repairing manuales, and make it a part of their business, and thus don't like to release the info for free. Here's hoping that the OpenMoko project demands better than this. Any official word on this matter from anyone? Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Schematics/PCB
I certainly wouldn't expect them (FIC) to make the schematics/PCB free to use, which would enable people to legally copy FIC's investment. But what real advantage can there be to keeping them closed? I would at least like this explained to me. As far as I know, any company wishing to make illegal knockoffs can just X-ray the boards (to read the layers) and therefore reproduce the PCB and schematics. After all, they have an incentive to put the time in. But hobbyist hackers don't have this time. I would also like to be able to repair the phone when it inevitably becomes damaged (in a few years, say). It is very frustrating when repairing consumer electronics that you just can't find the necessary information anywhere, ie what the ICs are (topcodes are next to useless). Quite often just a power transistor or the like needs to be replaced, but it is incredibly time-consuming understanding the function of each part of the circuit when you can only see part of it. Justyn On 21/02/07, Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I second the schematic request. But I doubt that they release them, the same happen with agenda. Anyway, if they doesn't release the schematics, and I get myself one of these phones, we would need to analize the pcb and try to get an idea on the design in order to modify it. It can be done, but it will take longer. I hope they release the schematic. c-ya! Ildefonso Camargo On 2/20/07, Justyn Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'd been assuming that the PCB and/or schematics for the Neo1973 had been made available along with the source code. Looking now, I realise that they haven't. I'm a hardware kind of person, and I've been looking forward to creating add-ons and modifications to my Neo1973 the second it arrives. Clearly the schematic at least is required for this to be as convenient as I've imagined an open-source project would be. A good example is adding things to the I2C bus. Searching the mailing lists and google I'm now feeling worried that I've misunderstood, and that the schematics/layouts won't be available. I'm hoping this isn't the case, perhaps they'll become available when the phone reaches phase 1, or with the hacker's lunchbox. Could someone tell me what's planned here? Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
planet.openmoko.org
Sorry if this is old news, but Harald Welte has announced on his blog that planet.openmoko.org is up. It's great to read some blog posts from people that I didn't even know were involved. Can't seem to subscribe to the whole planet through RSS though (only individuals), perhaps I'm being dense. Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: camera in the next version ? (for augmented reality app)
From a personal standpoint I'd like to see a camera in the next version, because I use the 2MP one in my phone very frequently. It's handy to have a camera of some sort with me 100% of the time to catch random events - of course it doesn't replace a real camera for situations where I can plan to have one on me in advance. But like you say, it's the other developments that could be made with a camera on the OpenMoko that are really exciting, the stuff we can't even think of right now. Justyn On 24/01/07, CLG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on augmented reality (marker based) platform for mobiles, and OpenMoko looks interesting. However lack of camera is a bummer. Are there any interes for the camera in the next version, or I'm only one who would like to see it ? Camera have other uses too like barcode reading, may be some other pattern recognition routines could be interesting too. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's Aim...
I agree that something, anything, that will help me justify upgrading my phone every six months is needed. In my case I particularly feel the need for 3G but I want to get building right now, on v1. I'd personally settle for a minor discount on the next version for so called early adopters. But then I don't know what profit margin FIC is selling these things at. Justyn On 21/01/07, Steve Grevemeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is 1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo or 2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-) I bet the second will prove as true... Milan The great thing about a free and open platform is that these two aims are NOT mutually exclusive! Frankly, I can't wait for one of these things -- and I hope that Sean and FIC make so much money they get compared to Microsoft! It costs a ton of money to design, test, and build hardware. It costs even MORE for software. :) The open approach dramatically reduces this cost, improves the product, and increases the overall profitability to the manufacturer. And just WAIT until the as-yet-unimagined killer app shows up! Anyone who thinks these devices are going to be cheap needs to wake up. (I'll avoid the banal free as in beer vs free as in speech converstation) What these devices need to be is affordable. $350 w/ accessories? That is actually CHEAP. My Treo cost more then that base, then I had to buy accessories! The one idea I did see in the last couple of days that I think NEED to get some serious attention is that of an upgrade path for developers. I have zero problem with the cost of the device or its capabilities for Rev1. The old Don't worry, be crappy philosophy is perfect. That and churn, baby, churn. Upgrade the unit continuously. The problem is that it gets REALLY expensive to try to keep up. Need a way to recycle the units. I'll throw out the following (going to need asbestos underwear for the flames THIS will generate): a) a formal developers program. Maybe modeled on the M$ partner program. A small yearly fee and formal registration. Not that developers are riff-raff or anything but motivation is a huge portion of this kind of development. b) Formal developers get first crack at new hardware. This concept is already being espoused -- I just think that it will need to be formalized at some point. c) An Upgrade path to facilitate continued development. Basically, when the new version comes out I send the old one back along with a reasonable upgrade fee and I get the new model. Benefits to the Developer: - access to the newest, best hardware - preservation of investment $ - credit and recognition within the community Benefits to FIC: - information on active developers - targeted audience for feedback/evaluation. I like open forums but sometime you need things a bit more focused. - Beta-test system! Both for FIC and for the community in general. Of course, I'll get the obvious what about all the developers that get excluded since they don't/won't/can't spend the money. The advantage of a formal program is that it is very easy to create an informal program. FIC/Some Vendor/Somebody can easily sponsor a developer. I.e. Somebody buys one of these units and shows they they rock, someone can step up and help them out. I've already seen stuff about getting units in the hand of select developers... The single hardest think in open source development is keeping the eye on the ball. Everyone has their own pet thing, and ensuring that the overall project is not derailed by a single aspect is incredibly hard. I think the recent thread regarding WiFi is an excellent example. The communities biggest challenge will be getting applications done and fielded at the best possible rate. Someone is going to have to take a lead role and try to identify the applications that have the biggest need from the myriad of great ideas. A little focus goes a long way in getting things DONE. Well, I've babbled enough for now. :) -seg Steve Grevemeyer ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's Aim...
On 22/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I promise not to leave you guys hanging. I just don't have a good plan worked out yet. Lucky for me I still have time ;-) -Sean That's good enough for me, thanks Sean. Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: keyboard / keypad idea
Why not modify a normal screen protector to have raised bumps in a keyboard layout, but leave the whole thing transparent. A screen protector is just a piece of plastic film with adhesive round the edges. The protector will live on the screen all the time and you could probably forget it's there when not using the keyboard, because you'd be reading things through it. Of course, it would undoubtedly affect the clarity of the display where the raised buttons are. When you want to use the keypad, the buttons would appear on the screen in the correct positions under the keys, a simple software matter. Justyn On 15/01/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derek Pressnall schrieb: Then you would still be using the touch screen for input (pressure applied to the bumps would transfer through the overlay to the touch screen), but the keypad pattern would show up through the bottom part of the overlay (with the bumps) where you could still blind dial. Add in a hinged connection at the top of the overlay, and possibly a sensor that could switch the phone's screen between normal mode and phone only mode when the overlay is in use, and you could have a very cheap method of obtainin a keypad similar to a Motorola A780. So what does everyone think? The Sony Ericsson P800 phone uses a keyboard like that. It's usable, but not really great. I found a picture at http://gsmservice.ru/system/common/images/system.ImageGallery/7359/90/_102674_web.jpg -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
WiFi through Bluetooth (Was: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi)
Since my last message I've found out a little more about the upcoming BluOnyx from Agere, and it sounds like a really good candidate for bridging WiFi to the neo1973 over Bluetooth. Here's an Engadget post describing the device a month ago: http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/18/ageres-bluonyx-portable-bluetooth-media-streamer-for-your-phone/ But for the really interesting stuff, see this new post by ThoughtFix: http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/ageres-bluonyx-box-of-wonder.html To summarise the relevant bits: * little box for pocket streaming * intended to be a personal content server over Bluetooth, WiFi, or mini-USB * actually an embedded computer with an open-source operating system. They're working on VxWorks and Linux for this device. Now the last comment kind of implies they're still deciding between VxWorks and Linux for the device (unless there's a VxWorks flavour of Linux that I've missed), but you can guarantee plenty of people will be custom-hacking Linux on when it's released. Who knows, perhaps the software will bridge wifi-bluetooth as a feature and selling point by the time it's released. It makes sense to me, they've got everything they need right there. As long as their phone supports the PAN bluetooth profile (or maybe even just DUN), plenty of people would find that useful. The main down side is it won't be available until around Q3. Justyn On 12/01/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is going to be bluetooth on the phone. The range is small, but the possibility of a bluetooth to wifi adaptor might be interesting... Maybe something small enough to clip on a belt. Then connect to it through bluetooth and have it connect to wifi and redirect network traffic. I am sure its possible.. Has anyone ever heard of anything like that? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A FIC phone with a real keyboard - Was: OpenMoko ON the iPhone
I realise this in no way answers your question, but this mini bluetooth keyboard http://www.freedominput.com/mainsite/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=12Itemid=30 seems similar in size to what you get on communicator-style phones of which you speak. It would certainly be no good for walking and typing (although it comes with some kind of dubious phone clip/rest) but it could probably fit comfortably in your pocket with the Neo and be used when sitting. It's cheap, I think it's made in China and sold rebranded across the world It's easy to find through google/ebay. Here's one pretty in depth, positive review: http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detailt=reviewsid=725 With regards to things like a built in keyboard and the rest, I'm personally hoping that in the coming years we'll see a whole variety of different physical configurations of these phones (all with the ultra-high res screen of course :-) ), one to suit every need, and all running the fantastic OpenMoko platform. Justyn. On 12/01/07, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: OpenMoko ON the iPhone Date: Fri 12 Jan 07 10:19:36AM + But I am used to have a phone with QWERTY keyboard together with a touchscreen (currently, a treo 650). There are lots of cute models around which sport a keyboard, from the Motorola Q, to the Nokia E61, to this new Samsung model (SCH-i760) which can be seen on a page on mobile-review.com whose URL was posted yesterday on this list. Or even the Sharp PV-200 (AKA T-Mobile Sidekick 3). I am used to write SMS messages with my thumbs while walking. I hated palm graffiti - way too many errors: writing was painfully slow. And if, as I expect, text input on the neo will be from a virtual keyboard on the touchscreen, with a stylus, walking and typing will simply not be possible. My question is: are there plans for FIC to produce a QWERTY keyboard model with native openmoko? (Possibly with wifi in place of gps, and with real mini-sd instead of micro-sd - but these are my personal preferences) No matter if the phone comes to be somewhat larger! Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
Maybe something small enough to clip on a belt. Then connect to it through bluetooth and have it connect to wifi and redirect network traffic. I am sure its possible.. Has anyone ever heard of anything like that? Something like this DID exist, the PX20: http://www.blueunplugged.com/p.aspx?p=105816 Launched in 2002 by a company called Possio, it seems to have instantly faded away, despite plenty of hype when they unveiled it. Possio don't make anything particularly similar any more ( www.possio.com). It allowed Bluetooth devices access to WLAN networks and looks as though it was based on an embedded Java web server, and was apparently pretty cheap. It wasn't quite ideal - relatively compact but not comfortably pocket-sized, and although it has an internal battery it was designed to plug into the mains most of the time. As for something available today, there's this seriously OTT option: http://www.ipwireless.com/products/mobile_bband_gateway.html The mobile broadband gateway is a slim, pocket-sized router that creates bluetooth and wifi networks and bridges them to a UMTS-TDD data network, so that your bluetooth and wifi devices can connect to a UMTS-TDD network wherever you go. It doesn't say that it could bridge wireless and bluetooth connections together but it's got all the right bits so I bet it could be made to. I don't know anything about it but it looks very, very expensive. I haven't spotted anything feasable on the web. It's worth bearing in mind that wifi is a considerable power drain, and bluetooth isn't that great itself, so I'd imagine this device would have to have a fair-sized battery, and would need to be recharged frequently. However, it would certainly be possible to hack something together by taking any embedded Linux project with USB (ie a gumstix http://www.gumstix.com) and adding wireless and bluetooth dongles, then setting it up to bridge the two connections. Gumstix aren't cheap though. I reckon modding a wireless usb dongle to be internally powered is the way to go. Justyn ps something went wrong sending the first time, so apologies if anyone has received this message twice. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
