Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
On 30-07-2020 20:07, Alexey Kovyazin wrote: And if the Firebird 2.5 translation is any indication, translating it will require a ton of effort afterwards to make it presentable. I'd rather spent time and effort to write it myself (maybe with some inspiration and copy/google-translate/paste/edit from the Russian version). I think the translator's adoption for the Firebird peculiarities greatly increased since LR 2.5 - after that he did translation of Developer Guide, which is much better. Do you think we should ask agency to translate some difficult part of LR3.0 or 4.0 and estimate the results? No. My main issue isn't with translation itself, it is that the documentation should be written, in English, by the project. And yes, we don't have a good track record at doing that, but the status quo is simply not good if we have to do funding drives every few years to translate the Russian documentation to English, which inevitably gets delayed because of editing, etc, reinforcing the bad reputation that Firebird has because of the state of its documentation. I'd rather work on catching up and then keeping up during development, especially as a large part of the work will already be done to write the release notes anyway. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
Mark, And if the Firebird 2.5 translation is any indication, translating it will require a ton of effort afterwards to make it presentable. I'd rather spent time and effort to write it myself (maybe with some inspiration and copy/google-translate/paste/edit from the Russian version). I think the translator's adoption for the Firebird peculiarities greatly increased since LR 2.5 - after that he did translation of Developer Guide, which is much better. Do you think we should ask agency to translate some difficult part of LR3.0 or 4.0 and estimate the results? Regards, Alexey ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
On 30-07-2020 18:53, Alexey Kovyazin wrote: On 30.07.2020 16:37, Mark Rotteveel wrote: While I understand that the Russian version is what we have, I don't think this 'Russian version first' approach is healthy from a perspective of ownership (as in, the project being responsible for the documentation). Not sure what do you mean. All documentation is released under IDPL license. Russian version of LR (versions 2.5, 3.0 and 4.0) is actively used, it is constantly updated by Denis Simonov (editor and maintainer), and got good feedback from Russian-speaking community (which is #2 in size, after Brazil). That is why I qualified what I meant with ownership, I wasn't talking about copyright/IP. And the Russian version is great, and I don't want to diminish that achievement. However, the fact is that being in Russian excludes a large part of the Firebird audience, and I think it is important that the project writes its own documentation (if only for perception), and 'English first', if only because that means most of our users can read it. And if the Firebird 2.5 translation is any indication, translating it will require a ton of effort afterwards to make it presentable. I'd rather spent time and effort to write it myself (maybe with some inspiration and copy/google-translate/paste/edit from the Russian version). Mark -- Mark Rotteveel ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
Mark, On 30.07.2020 16:37, Mark Rotteveel wrote: On 2020-07-30 13:20, Alexey Kovyazin (ak) wrote: Hello, We did survey in Telegram channel, and idea was to skip 3.0 and do the translation of LR4.0... What Telegram channel? https://t.me/firebirdsql Not very representative, of course, but at least 200+ people using Firebird, mostly from the visitors of Firebird Conference. While I understand that the Russian version is what we have, I don't think this 'Russian version first' approach is healthy from a perspective of ownership (as in, the project being responsible for the documentation). Not sure what do you mean. All documentation is released under IDPL license. Russian version of LR (versions 2.5, 3.0 and 4.0) is actively used, it is constantly updated by Denis Simonov (editor and maintainer), and got good feedback from Russian-speaking community (which is #2 in size, after Brazil). Regards, Alexey Kovyazin IBSurgeon Mark ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
Hello all, Martin Köditz wrote: > I was asked whether it would make sense to start a crowdfunding campaign for > the translation of the Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference into English. > Or are there already other efforts to implement it? Given that we have a complete English 2.5 LangRef, as well as the 3.0 Release Notes, I think the most logical approach is to build the English 3.0 (and subsequently 4.0) LangRef based on that. We have the knowledge, and if we don't have the time, I'd rather crowdfund for grants to upgrade 2.5 -> 3.0 -> 4.0 in-house than for another, let's say, "sub-optimal" Russian to English translation by a non-native English speaker. And I'd be happy to make a donation for that, too. Cheers, Paul Vinkenoog ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
On 2020-07-30 13:20, Alexey Kovyazin (ak) wrote: Hello, We did survey in Telegram channel, and idea was to skip 3.0 and do the translation of LR4.0... What Telegram channel? While I understand that the Russian version is what we have, I don't think this 'Russian version first' approach is healthy from a perspective of ownership (as in, the project being responsible for the documentation). Mark ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
Hello, We did survey in Telegram channel, and idea was to skip 3.0 and do the translation of LR4.0... Regards, Alexey Kovyazin IBSurgeon чт, 30 июл. 2020 г., 12:55 Mark Rotteveel : > On 2020-07-30 09:44, Köditz wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > > > I was asked whether it would make sense to start a crowdfunding > > campaign for the translation of the Russian Firebird 3.0 Language > > Reference into English. > > > > Or are there already other efforts to implement it? > > I'm not sure if that is a viable course of action. IIRC, the translation > effort for 2.5 cost quite a lot (the initial idea was that the money > collected would also go toward translating the 3.0 version, but not > enough was left) and also required a lot of post-translation editing by > Helen to fix glaring translation errors. I'm considering to spend some > time to use the current 2.5 version as a basis to go to 3.0 (and then to > 4.0), where I may use Google translate on the Russian 3.0 version, but > might also just write things from scratch. However, I haven't made solid > plans for that yet as I first want to finish up the migration to > AsciiDoc. > > Mark > > > ___ > Firebird-docs mailing list > Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs > ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
Re: [Firebird-docs] Translation of Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference
On 2020-07-30 09:44, Köditz wrote: Hello everybody, I was asked whether it would make sense to start a crowdfunding campaign for the translation of the Russian Firebird 3.0 Language Reference into English. Or are there already other efforts to implement it? I'm not sure if that is a viable course of action. IIRC, the translation effort for 2.5 cost quite a lot (the initial idea was that the money collected would also go toward translating the 3.0 version, but not enough was left) and also required a lot of post-translation editing by Helen to fix glaring translation errors. I'm considering to spend some time to use the current 2.5 version as a basis to go to 3.0 (and then to 4.0), where I may use Google translate on the Russian 3.0 version, but might also just write things from scratch. However, I haven't made solid plans for that yet as I first want to finish up the migration to AsciiDoc. Mark ___ Firebird-docs mailing list Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs
