<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon>
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2023 6:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
Some people indicate ":)" by &quo
Some people indicate ":)" by "" or "" or the like. The nice thing
about that is that you can put ~anything~ in there to make the meaning clear.
and , for example; I know I'm not the only one to use that.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Never pick a fight with
:-)
I need emojis..text emojis make no sense to me.
Hank
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A very small speciality :-)
Hank
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Well, now that we've devolved to swapping histories:
I first used a keypunch when I was four, in 1965. My dad rented one and had
it installed in the house because he was working on a concordance program.
His first project was Beowulf, and he needed the text to be input, which my
mother
I'm sure I've posted this before, but since you bring it up...
---
Jack was a COBOL programmer in the late 1990s who (after years of being treated
as a technological dinosaur by all the UNIX programmers, Client/Server
programmers, website developers etc) was finally getting some respect: He'd
I haven't written in COBOL since some time in the 1980s. That's not counting a
short ciphering routine I wrote coming up on Y2K, and a lot of ~reading~ COBOL
programs for a client in 2012. But I keep hearing that COBOL is keeping up
with the times, and I'm sort of curious. What's been added?
I can hold my silence no longer.
FORTRAN in HS, Intro in college was FORTRAN, then 2 semesters of
ALC (S/360 DOS) and 1 of RPG|RPGII.
Taught myself COBOL well enough that in 2 weeks I could work on
it and do macro level CICS (CICS 1.1.1 -- LONG before CICS/TS for
you folk in CICS
used to be tricky to
do, but were possible even then. (1980s)
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2023 1:20 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: I want to cry
>
> [EXTERN
On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 21:11:34 +, Gibney, Dave wrote:
>370 assembler . Sticky shift finger
>
Keypunch?
--
gil
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370 assembler . Sticky shift finger
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Gibney, Dave
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2023 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: I want to cry
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
> COB
COBOL was almost trivial to learn, after a semester of #&) Assemble out of
Struble. But, I guess by then it was at least my 4th or 5th language.
I came up from application programming, then supporting a few (CA) products to
sysprog about the time of ESA
equ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 1:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
Good points. A lot of us started off in operations first then went on to
application development. Eventually, some of us moved over to systems
programming. Then.later the silos were c
For the state of Oregon DMV, I wrote a set of pure CICS Cobol programs that
implemented a TCPIP client and server for interaction with the states law
enforcement windows based message switching system. It provided photos and text
data to Cop cars and other devices …
Cobol was chosen because C
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 1:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: I want to cry
I hesitate at this first line, Paul. I can't tell its context (because you
deleted the post you're responding to, ahem!), but I'm
Oregon State was using a pseudo language system to teach ... not a mainstream
language.
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I hesitate at this first line, Paul. I can't tell its context (because you
deleted the post you're responding to, ahem!), but I'm remembering how I got
into programming when I first encountered it:
Professor, on the VERY FIRST DAY of class: So if you're writing a program to
compare two
Spend a year reading customers dumps on paper upside down ...
Most were S0C7 ... what do you do when the debuggers are broken?
Yes, you have to understand the machine instructions, but not every one of them
...
--
For
It is very difficult to debug an abend in a Cobol program unless you can at
least read the generated assembler. Of course, these days, there are programs
that will do it for you.
--
Tom Marchant
On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 18:27:57 -0500, Tony Thigpen wrote:
>Ok, so exactly why is that a problem?
>
Absolutely!
I fall into the last category now :( - went to tech school for data processing,
RPG and RPG II some COBOL in the 70's
went for my fist job with Chilton Research for a programmers position, I ended
up being one of those folks you don't want to get a call from.
I left there and was
Good points. A lot of us started off in operations first then went on to
application development. Eventually, some of us moved over to systems
programming. Then.later the silos were created for operating systems
maintenance, networking, and database.
Today circling back, all those roles were
Absolutely! They should be taught how to program and debug first, then the
constructs of individual languages.
Many of us have programed on all sorts of machines from the IBM mainframe, to
the IBM PC, 8080s, z80s, Univac 1050-II, Xeon, Arm, etc. and different
languages from all the of
or off-topic. If or when that doesn't work for
me, I'll unsubscribe.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 12:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
CAUTION: This email originated from
Discussion List on behalf of Tom
Brennan
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 12:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
"IT was just the means to an end"
Ah, that explains why I can't remember you ever helping someone here
with a technical issue. Pretty-much anyone
on behalf of Tom
Brennan
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 12:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
"IT was just the means to an end"
Ah, that explains why I can't remember you ever helping someone here
with a technical issue. Pretty-much anyone I've ever worked wi
Your analysis is incorrect. I’m highly technical. But, my expertise is varied.
I’m a jack of all trades. Programming, DASD management, DBA, MQ, z/OS, lots of
third party software, Security, etc. Why do I need to add my cents when there
are plenty of know it alls with no actual work to do other
"IT was just the means to an end"
Ah, that explains why I can't remember you ever helping someone here
with a technical issue. Pretty-much anyone I've ever worked with who
got into this business *only* because they saw money, was generally
less-technical and often ended up in management.
Me too. People who post non-stop, every day, all day, obviously have no life
outside of IBM-MAIN. Whereas, I rarely post because I’m doing a ton of
traveling. But, that’s been true throughout my IT career. Whether it was my
travels to NY to be on the MILLIONAIRE show, my $10,000 reward for
I do feel sorry for those of you who evidently have no social life
whatsoever outside of IBM-MAIN.
But most of us would be very gratified if you'd STFU about off-topics.
You're polluting the forum and wasting our time.
sas
--
At least they listened to the esteemed professor with respect to teaching it
... and it looks like he didn't say anything about coding in it :)
MKK
On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 19:42:12 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>Well, Dijkstra [in]famously said “The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its
>teaching
; From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
> Bill Johnson
> Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 8:30 AM
> To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: I want to cry
>
> The World Health Organization rates the US health care system 37th in the
> world. France is rated number
y what others think you are.” - - - John Wooden
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 8:30 AM
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
The World Health Organization rates the US health care system
t: Monday, February 6, 2023 8:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
The World Health Organization rates the US health care system 37th in the
world. France is rated number 1. The US health care system isn’t even close to
being better than most. And those social democratic coun
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email,
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
Social democratic countries have much
hn Wooden
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 8:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
The World Health Organization rates the US health care system 37th in the
world. France is rated
nframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 10:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email,
whi
Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 10:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may
Most non-Cobol programmers, or even that have not been exposed to shops
that can use the language as it was intended, think Cobol is a
simplistic language.
I was lucky and spent several years in a shop that really knew how to
sling Cobol code. And, before you say it must have been unreadable,
Well, Dijkstra [in]famously said “The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its
teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense.”
That aside, the real problem is programmers who have no grasp of the
fundamentals of programming. IT is about where medicine was in the middle
ages, when
Well, obviously, because I'm not that way and I don't think anyone else should
be either, duh!
Seriously, I guess you have a point. If someone wants to do just one thing, it
has to be his choice. Sounds dull, though, and also less marketable, and less
valuable to our customers. But if I
oduct."
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Dean Kent
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2023 2:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
OK - real story. Working as an L2 support tech for a
Ok, so exactly why is that a problem?
Tony Thigpen
Bob Bridges wrote on 2/3/23 13:09:
It is a little distressing, though (at least to me), to observe how many
"programmers" never ~have~ seen anything but COBOL.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* How agitated I am
Here's one that still causes me mild amazement: Why do programmers confuse
Halloween and Christmas? Because Oct 31 is Dec 25.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* Vague and insignificant forms of speech, and abuse of language, have so
long passed for mysteries of
OK - real story. Working as an L2 support tech for a well known
software company. New release of the product required a new SVC because
an area in the F1 DSCB that was previously unused by IBM was now being
used - so that critical bit of data had to be moved to a new unused
area. The
You could ask if the customer still has the box that the product came in.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/word-imperfect/
/Leonard
Hank Oerlemans wrote on 2/2/2023 7:28 PM:
Customer : Could you please have a look and help us to fix the issue .
Customer log : IEA992I SLIP TRAP ID=S047
ssage-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Art Gutowski
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2023 1:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 20:15:21 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote:
>[...]
>When nearly an hour had passed, t
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 20:15:21 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote:
>[...]
>When nearly an hour had passed, the phone rang again:
>
>Customer: I need a new power supply.
>
>Technician: How did you come to that conclusion?
>
>Customer: Well, I called Microsoft and told the technician what you said, and
://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 5:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
At the risk of being contrarian
-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 15:43:04 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>The name of ther song is called Haddock Eyes. Data names are variable names;
>the fields holding th
Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 11:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
Social democratic countries have much better quality of lives than America.
Very few would like pure capitalism. No social security, medicare
is fellow man. Under socialism it's the other way around.
> CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity.
Original message From: Bob Bridges
Date: 2/3/23 5:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: I
want to cry I don't run in those circles enou
the brevity.
Original message From: Bob Bridges
Date: 2/3/23 5:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: I
want to cry I don't run in those circles enough. I write in VBA and VBS a lot,
but I don't work in a shop where it's common. But I was a COBOL developer for
15
Boy, and how! Not a computer issue, but I remember the first winter my wife
and I had in our first apartment. We woke up suddenly in the middle of the
night smelling something burning, and ran frantically around the apartment
looking for the fire.
I no longer panic at that smell at the onset
Actually, if just a burning smell, might be a lot of dust inside the computer.
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 7:15 PM Bob Bridges wrote:
>
> LOL! I had a customer whom I repeatedly nagged about error messages. One
> day he called and said my program "didn't work". What did it do?, I asked.
> No,
LOL! I had a customer whom I repeatedly nagged about error messages. One day
he called and said my program "didn't work". What did it do?, I asked. No,
don't tell me "nothing"; there must have been an error message; what did it say?
"Oh, it said some damn thing", he grumbled. I'm pretty
I don't run in those circles enough. I write in VBA and VBS a lot, but I don't
work in a shop where it's common. But I was a COBOL developer for 15 years and
I knew coworkers who know COBOL and nothing else.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* The inherent vice of
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Bob Bridges
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 10:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
It is a little distressing, though (at least to me), to observe how many
"programmers" never ~have~ seen anything but COBOL.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Bob Bridges
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 10:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
It is a little distressing, though (at least to me), to observe how many
"programmers" never ~have~ seen anything but COBOL.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...
Or Visual Basic.
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 12:10 Bob Bridges wrote:
> It is a little distressing, though (at least to me), to observe how many
> "programmers" never ~have~ seen anything but COBOL.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* How agitated I am when I am in
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 15:43:04 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>The name of ther song is called Haddock Eyes. Data names are variable names;
>the fields holding the data are variables. In fact, the manual uses the term
>"condition variable".
>
"Identifier"?
--
gil
W dniu 03.02.2023 o 16:38, Paul Gorlinsky pisze:
Never let and new operator go and practice IPLing the machine…
Yes it has happened to a production environment at UNM…
Well, I did it.
Some auditor asked about procedures. The procedures were in Polish, but
he was English-speaking.
So he
This is part of the same “Mainframe is dead” BS.
New research on the global scale of the COBOL programming language suggests
that there are upwards of 800 billion lines of COBOL code being used by
organizations and institutes worldwide, some three times larger than previously
estimated.
A
It is a little distressing, though (at least to me), to observe how many
"programmers" never ~have~ seen anything but COBOL.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* How agitated I am when I am in the garden, and how happy I am to be so
agitated. Nothing works just the way
TBH I had wondered about a terminology difference, but the fact that nobody
else jumped in convinced me that I wasn't the only one going "Wow".
And unless COBOL is the only programming language you've ever seen, it
seems unlikely that you wouldn't know what a variable is.
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Hobart Spitz [orexx...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 10:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to c
Never let and new operator go and practice IPLing the machine…
Yes it has happened to a production environment at UNM…
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On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:00 AM zMan wrote:
> O my.
>
> I was on a call with a bunch of customers a few years ago. One of them was
> having a very basic problem with a COBOL program calling our product. I
> explained that they needed to put the name of into a variable
> that gets passed as the
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
O my.
I was on a call with a bunch of customers a few years ago. One of them was
having a very basic problem with a COBOL program calling our product. I
explained that they needed to put the name of into a variable
that gets passed
t; From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Hank Oerlemans [03c4d8bf55f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2023 10:28 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: I want to cry
>
> Customer : Could you please have a
:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
You guys do realize he does not need the answer? He knows the answer and
is complaining about a dumb customer that will not even look up the
error message.
Tony Thigpen
Shelia Chalk wrote on 2/3/23 08:17:
> The librarys In your step
Maybe they want him to cry some more.
sas
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:26 AM Tony Thigpen wrote:
> You guys do realize he does not need the answer? He knows the answer and
> is complaining about a dumb customer that will not even look up the
> error message.
>
> Tony Thigpen
>
>
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
Part of the tears could be that a SLIP trap is not a terribly useful answer to
S047
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
Behalf Of Retired Mainframer
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2023 8:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN
Also note that libraries in the linklst are protected by extents, not by name…
that is it you add members that ultimately extend the dataset, and you have
issued your F LLA,REFRESH you can still get an abend if you are trying to use
an authorized program that resides in the new extent.
Discussion List On Behalf Of
Gibney, Dave
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2023 10:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: I want to cry
Part of the tears could be that a SLIP trap is not a terribly useful answer to
S047
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussio
-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2023 10:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: I want to cry
Customer : Could you please have a look and help us to fix the issue .
Customer log : IEA992I SLIP TRAP ID=S047 MATCHED.
ME :
1. Hire a sysprog
2. RTFM
3. Google Play and hit
Hush you bye, don’t you cry,
Go to sleepy, little baby.
when you wake,
You shall have,
all the pretty little horses.
Blacks and Bays,
dapples and grays,
Coach and six a little horses.
Hush-a-by, Don't you cry,
Go to sleep, my little
Part of the tears could be that a SLIP trap is not a terribly useful answer to
S047
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Retired Mainframer
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2023 8:36 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject:
uary 2, 2023 7:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: I want to cry
Customer : Could you please have a look and help us to fix the issue .
Customer log : IEA992I SLIP TRAP ID=S047 MATCHED.
ME :
1. Hire a sysprog
2. RTFM
3. Google Play and hit update
4. Apple store and hit update
5. Check c
Customer : Could you please have a look and help us to fix the issue .
Customer log : IEA992I SLIP TRAP ID=S047 MATCHED.
ME :
1. Hire a sysprog
2. RTFM
3. Google Play and hit update
4. Apple store and hit update
5. Check calendar and mortgage and see when I can retire
6. Tears welling up
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