Chris, my bottleneck (app slowness to respond is the at the database connection max), I am not even going to try and adjust minThreads and maxThreads. When I tried to increase maxConnection to our database from and existing connection max of 20, to a new connectionMax of 50, I got errors, see attached snapshot.
I was able to raise the maxConnection to database up to 30 with no errors, so I am just going to deploy at that level until we upgrade our Postgess database We are using a really old Postgres and plan in the near to future to upgrade that database. BTW, I did find and use the Apache Benchmark tool and was able to see how our app responses with a test requests of 10000 and concurrent requests of 40 and those results look good to me with worst response time of only 1000 miliseconds. Rick Noel Systems Programmer | Westwood One rn...@westwoodone.com -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 3:09 PM To: users@tomcat.apache.org Subject: [EXT]Re: [EXT]Re: performance tunning of Tomcat 10 Rick, On 3/27/24 09:22, Rick Noel wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 8:24 AM > To: Tomcat Users List <users@tomcat.apache.org>; Rick Noel > <rn...@westwoodone.com.INVALID> > Cc: Voodoo nmulcahy gmail <nmulc...@gmail.com>; David Jung > <david.j...@cumulus.com> > Subject: [EXT]Re: performance tunning of Tomcat 10 > > Rick, > > On 3/27/24 07:53, Rick Noel wrote: >> I was wondering if the apache foundation has any tools we can use to >> fine tune Tomcat 10. Tools to deteming how to set the best heap size >> for Tomcat startup and the best connection attributes of >> minSpareThreads and MaxThreads. > What is your goal? > Our application is a sip phone call handling application.(A voice > response xml application) The goal is to not have call bottleneck at peak > call volume. > Sometimes too many folks call at one time hit our app and calls are not > handle correctly. > >> I know my application at times will reach 100 concurrent connections > > and some times goes has high as 500 connections. > > Okay. > Well I do not have actual traffic info down to the sec, But from the > application logs I know that that points in the day more than 300 > calls can come in Okay, you need to get better information. Check out this presentation on Tomcat monitoring: https://tomcat.apache.org/presentations.html#latest-monitoring-with-jmx There is a lot in there, but I do talk about checking on the request processor to see how many requests are in-flight at once. You can do the same with your database pool. You'll want to grab samples of those things at regular intervals to see how they correlate. I suspect you know when your peak times are, so schedule the samples to be taken during that timeframe. You could even sample once per second if you wanted to -- the calls are pretty inexpensive. >> Should I boost minSpareThreads and maxThread values of what I plan to >> use below? > Or why would we not just set very high minSpareThreads >> and maxThread values like minSpareThreads =300 and maxThread=1000 >> >> This is a snippet of my server.xml >> >> <Executor name="tomcatPhoneAppThreadPool" namePrefix="catalina-executor-" >> minSpareThreads="50" >> maxThreads="300" /> >> >> <Connector port="8585" >> executor="tomcatPhoneAppThreadPool" >> compression="on" >> compressionMinSize="2048" >> >> compressableMimeType="text/html,text/xml,text/plain,text/css,text/javascript,application/javascript,application/json,application/xml" >> protocol="org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11NioProtocol" >> redirectPort="8443"> >> <UpgradeProtocol >> className="org.apache.coyote.http2.Http2Protocol" /> >> >> </Connector> >> >> Also, am I good with setting >> protocol="org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11NioProtocol" >> And then setting <UpgradeProtocol >> className="org.apache.coyote.http2.Http2Protocol" /> >> >> That will tell Tomcat to do HTTP2 Correct? > > That's the only way to enable h2. Well... you could use Http11Nio2Protocol, > too. NIO is the default protocol so you don't even need to add that > specifically if you don't want to. > > Back to threads. > > Each thread (unless you go virtual, but that's not really production-ready > IMHO at this point unless you have very strict circumstances where it will > work great for you) takes up a bunch of memory, so you can't just set > maxThreads=1M. Threads take "time" to start, but it's not really that much. > If starting and stopping threads is what is making your application slow, > than you have a very high-performance application and environment indeed. > > Your question as stated is unanswerable. > > You say you are sometimes hitting 500 connections. The default maximum number > of connections is 10000 and you are only using 500. That means you aren't > being flooded, which is a Good Thing. (BTW: How are you measuring "how many > connections" you have? Make sure you are measuring the right thing... > > I am estimating the actual connections just based on application call logs. > > Is your *current* maxThreads set to 500? If so, then your thread pool maximum > is set to your high-water mark which seems like it should be fine. If you set > your maxThreads to 1000 you won't get any benefit because only 500 requests > are ever being sent at once, right? > > What else does your application do? > Our application is a sip phone call handling application.(A voice > response xml application) > > For example, if you have a thread-pool max-threads of 1000 and your > application uses an RDBMS for every request but your db connection pool size > is more like 10, then many threads waiting on a small number of connections > gets you absolutely no benefit. You'd have to make changes elsewhere in your > application in order to make use of those extra threads. > > Similarly, if you have a big thread pool and a big db connection pool, but > your database performs slowly, then having all that power on the application > server doesn't really help you. > > Yes our app is using a database (we use Postres) And yes I assume > that is our bottleneck Our tomcat context.xml defines that database > maxConnction to be only maxTotal="20" So if you are allowing up to 300 or 500 threads and most of them need a database connection, then you are really limiting yourself to more like 20 simultaneous requests served. You will likely need to increase that db connection pool size. > We have other apps and that hit this same database, so we define low > maxTotal on each server so each server can have only limit > connection access to the database Well... > I am thinkingit would be best to try and NOT optimize minSpareThreads > and maxThreads but instead to determine what is the optimal Database > connection maxTotal to set I agree. And if your database can't handle it, then you need to invest more $$$ in your database, or re-think how to store data. One way to re-think things is to consider replication/clustering of your existing database. I'm not super familiar with PostgreSQL but I suspect you can use multi-primary deployments and read-only replicas as long as your application understands how to interact properly with that kind of deployment. Another option would be to use a different kind of database like Cassandra or whatever which is optimized for writes (if you are write-heavy). You might also be able to segment your data differently, so information about current in-progress calls goes to a high-performance but small database (possibly in-memory) and longer-term storage can be used for things that need to out-last the phone call such as statistics and stuff like that. > So anyone trying to answer "how big should be thread pool be" really needs to > understand the nature of your application and the other things happening in > your environment. > > Sometimes the answer is "just add more threads/CPUs/memory" and sometimes the > answer is "re-think your application architecture". -chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the sender and you are sure the content is safe. 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