You see? Again. I'm sorry if you didn't read my last post - it was quite long, as usual.
But for the good of your company, you *have* to stop this "we're the wronged party and Lan is the bad guy, misleading you" tack. And you have to stop saying things like "it's easy to miss the copyright on Flickr". And generally stop putting yourselves in the position of the wronged party. It's not playing well. We've all been trying to tell you that and you're not listening. And saying "Lan wants $3000" as if that's going to make everybody gasp in horror is not going to work, now, either. $300 is a stock image price. Not a price for an image as specific as that you used. And if Lan was somebody you did not know - a powerful industry photographer who had taken an image of a celebrity holding Oscars, which you'd used to advertise your commercial venture - you would pay a *MASSIVE* penalty for using it without permission. That's the accepted rules of the game. Find 'em and Read 'em. If I go onto Adobe Stock Images now, I can download a royalty free STOCK image at A4 (roughly US Letter) size for £339.00 - that's just under $700. That's for a stock image. I don't know who these photographers were that you spoke to, or how much they knew about the contents of the image you used... but as far as I'm concerned, they're just wrong. As for Lan being unwilling to negotiate... it doesn't sound like you've done much talking, frankly. We hear nothing from you, and all we hear from Lan is that he's been waiting 3 months. Have you really *tried* to negotiate. Or are you so convinced that his price is outrageous that you're just getting angry (wrongly, i think) and standing your ground? If you're offering $300 and no more, that's not really negotiating either. Think about it. Come on - I'll say it again: I like Podtech. You're good for the community and you're paying great people to make stuff. But just maybe try to see things from an outsider's perspective. This is costing you $$$ in PR. And not doing those people who produce vlogs for you much good either. They should be able to be very proud to be sponsored by Podtech. And the longer it goes on, the more expensive it gets for you. Rupert On 30 Jun 2007, at 04:25, Robert Scoble wrote: Here's what happened. An employee made a mistake. We recognize that a mistake was made. It was easy to see how a mistake was made since usually people in the community who, when invited to an event we held usually give us photos that were snapped at our events for free and it's easy to miss the copyright on Flickr. Thomas Hawk, for instance, takes lots of photos at our events and gives them to us for free since he's appreciative for the community work we do. We asked around what a photo like the one that we used by Lan Bui was worth. I asked several professional photographers, the average fee was $300. Lan was not commissioned to take photos and an employee made a mistake by using a photo and not making sure we had the rights to use it before using it. But Lan wants $3,000. We have offered Lan something between those two prices which we feel is fair ($1,000 is the price I saw offered by PodTech CEO John Furrier, which is more than 3x what most professionals in the marketplace charge for this kind of work). Lan wants $3,000. He believes his work is worth that and believes that there isn't room for negotiation on this issue. So we're at an impass. I'm personally sorry for the whole way this thing has been handled, though, and still would like to find a way to get the two parties to reach closure on this problem. I do want to make sure Lan gets compensated properly for his intellectual property, but we want to reach a fair price and one that's based on what professionals expect. Robert Scoble ### From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Meiser Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:58 P To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Hey PodTech - What's up with Lan's image? Well... I'm glad people haven't resorted to name calling. Got to say, while I love podtech I'm a little disapointed at their response. The accussations about lan presenting a one sided story... is it his responsibility to present both sides? Is that even possible? And Scoble's negative conjecture about "loosing money on the vloggies"... is an unecissary and unwarranted resentful remark toward the whole community which reflects poorly on podtech. It is perhaps the thing that disturbs me most about this. Very disapointing. As for bringing up deaths in related people's families... very unforetunate remark. I don't know what other side to the story there is... The facts are this... Podtech used lan's photo... mistakes happen... noone here holds a grudge... but they've had more then enough time to resolve it and haven't. There's no need to drag the whole thing through the mud on either side... I just hope podtech and lan can resolve the issue so we can leave it quickly and quietly behind. I don't believe it's indicative of any larger issue... it's not like some printing company is selling prints of dozens of Lan's photos for hundreds of dollars each. It was an event to promote videobloggers. I'd hope because of that context Lan would accept an appology from Podtech but that's up to Lan. On a related note, perhaps this will provide some perspective. Some kids from Maryland got their yearbooks recently to find a slew of their facebook pictures in them. How's that for intellectual property theft? How would you have liked to recieve a yearbook only to find a bunch of your pictures from your blog in it? Makes a somewhat subtle duotone photo in the background of a banner seem like a relatively minor incident by comparison. Not to diminish the injustice to Lan, but there are worse things that could have happened. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070627/012707.shtml I hope the matter gets resolved quickly. The only shame here is that it hasn't been resolved already and was allowed to drag out. Group hug? :) -Mike mmeiser.com/blog mefeedia.com On 6/29/07, Adam Quirk, Wreck & Salvage <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:quirk%40wreckandsalvage.com> > wrote: > I've been surprised by all the vitriol. I'd have thought that Podtech would > have built up a couple brownie points with y'all by now, what with their > paying you real money, and hosting awards shows for us all to circle-jerk > at. > > Maybe the lesson here is to get paid First? Once you put something online, > you don't own it anymore than you can claim to own a rainbow hovering above > your house. It's in the public consciousness, part of the firehose of > experiences that we all consume, transitory experiences. I think especially > in this case since it's a digital photo of Casey McKinnon, if anyone has a > claim to some money it would be her. If someone else made a recording of a > song I was playing, and royalties were to be paid for that recording, I'd > likely be the one to receive them. But I wouldn't demand them. Something > just sits wrong with me when I hear about people billing other people for > services that they weren't hired to provide. > > Creative Commons is pretty silly, not as silly as traditional copyright, but > pretty silly. > > I'm heading out of town now so I won't be able to respond to any shit slung > my way for a while :) > > P.S. Lan, you're a badass photog, I'm glad I found your work via this mess. > > -Adam > > > On 6/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:tim%40frenchmaidtv.com> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:tim%40frenchmaidtv.com> > wrote: > > > > Can we give this a rest for a week or two and see what happens? > > > > This group does some very cool things and discovers news worthy > > information all the time and this has the two side talking. > > > > It sounds like something is going to happen and that this will come > > to a settlement but I don't think that will happen untill after the > > 4th of July so can we pause for a little while, bring it back up > > later if we need to and move on to some fun stuff like What iPhone > > line is Steve Garfield standing in? or Why is Ask a Ninja going to > > Israel ? > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > Tim Street > > Creator/Executive Producer > > French Maid TV > > The Viral Video of "How To's" by French Maids > > http://frenchmaidtv.com > > Subscribe for FREE on > > <ahref="http://www.frenchmaidtv.com/itunes " target="_blank">iTunes</a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 29, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Devlon Duthie wrote: > > > > > I'm with Carl. > > > > > > If we want to use crowd 'weight' wouldn't an email/blog/pr frenzy > > > be more > > > effective? > > > > > > also, just saying :) > > > > > > -- > > > -Devlon > > > > > > http://devlonduthie.com | http://mefeedia.com | http:// node-64.com/ > > > blog > > > MSN: du.th.ied > > > AIM: devlond > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Carl Weaver > > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:02 AM > > > To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [videoblogging] Re: Hey PodTech - What's up with Lan's image? > > > > > > I have a problem with raising money for Lan on the list. Yes, Lan > > > deserves his fees (and 3 times that because of the infringement) but > > > to raise it ourselves lets Podtech off the hook a little bit. Okay, so > > > Lan is paid - why should Podtech cough up the dough then? > > > > > > I'm just sayin'... > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > Carl Weaver > > > Photographer > > > http://www.carlweaver.com > > > http://www.camerasamurai.com - Photography education, news, tips > > > and more > > > http://dcmetrostories.com - DC Metro Stories: Stories about the > > > people, > > > places > > > and events in the DC Metro area > > > http://nextlifeintheafternoon.com - A Journey Through Thailand > > > > > > Michael Sullivan wrote: > > > > > > > > no comment.... > > > > > > > > except that i bet we could organize a little crowdfunding effort > > > to pay > > > lan > > > > before podtech does. > > > > care for some competition, podtech? > > > > > > > > lan, how much do we need to raise? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Adam Quirk > Wreck & Salvage > 551.208.4644 > Brooklyn, NY > http://wreckandsalvage.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
