Hello,
When you react to people as a homogenous whole rather than individuals,
yes, you have crossed the
line.
and then there is the issue of cultural gestalts. Granted not every Roman
was a soldier, but can you not speak of roman culture as a whole as being
somewhat militaristic? I make the mistake of not being clear enough about
things like this. I don't think every white person is evil, but I think that
culturally, on a whole, certain characteristics do emerge. Why did global
colonialism rise out of mesopotamia, and come to ultimate fruition in
Greece, then Rome, then Europe, and then the US.
I think you put 5 different ethnicities together in a room they are going to
get along on a personal human level, but on a larger level, on the scale of
a culture that might be a different story. It might be an issue of class
rule or whatever but I think patterns do emerge.
You assume that the artists you revere had a disenfranchised ghetto
upbringing because they were
black. In actuality you know very little of what their lives were really
like. These stereotypes
you profess to hate are as active in you as in anybody.
I think you did not bother to read my post. Check the part where I talked
about Detroit Techno not catching on in the US because of its middle class
nature. Such as Juan was east side, but was sent to Belleville to stay out
of trouble, or Carl Craig's mom buying him his first synth, a Prophet600. I
don't think that having black skin is some magical talisman that equals
instant funk. I do think that perhaps being a part of african-american
culture and having certain experiences
might change the direction of your artistic output.
Black life in America is too huge to put into one little ghetto box. I don't
assume that a person is this way or that because of the color of their skin.
I make the mistake that people already know that I realize that there is a
difference between wholes and individuals. As usual, a lot of people miss
those because I am more brash and abrasive than I probably should be.
when I say that White people are this way or that, I am looking more at
larger cultural patterns, and conscious participation in certain social
structures. Look at the English or American Empires, not every Englishman
raped and pillaged Africa and India, but most at least indirectly benefited
and participated in that conquest. I think if you put English and Indian
people in a room they will get along as individuals, but if you extrapolate
that to an entire culture, differences and characteristics arise.
I think if you go to a certain black or white or mixed neighborhood
obviously nobody is exactly alike. However, if you look for similarities at
a larger level, cultural patterns in each group will arise.
Your sense of history is equally biased, only in a different direction.
Southern plantation owners
were by no means the first to own slaves, nor were white Europeans. You're
simply wrong on that
count.
oh absolutely not, African's themselves owned slaves during the time of the
African Diaspora. Slavery has existed in one form or another since the dawn
of the agrarian age.
Your desire to blame people for the atrocities of specific groups on their
skin color, to lump all
white people together as being guilty of crimes committed by individuals is
every bit as racist as
the criminals themselves.
Where they really crimes committed as individuals? If one African was
kidnapped and enslaved, that is an individual crime. When a whole
infrastructure is established and an entire broad cultural economic model is
sustained by by a crime, I think the guilt transcends the action of the
individual.
Is it racist to say that whole groups of people are responsible for an
outcome because of the individuals action or lack there of when you can
point to larger historical activity? I think it is racist if you cannot see
the group for the individual. My mistake was not making clear that all my
statements(at least in my mind) include the Some But Not All rule. I make
sweeping statements, but trust me, I am aware that not everybody fits the
stereotype. I don't think every English person for the last 500 years was
totally evil, but you cannot forget that as a larger cultural whole what the
English did in China, in India, in Africa, and in America...
Is it racist to say that English Culture on a whole did some seriously evil
things on a scale never previously seen in history? No, it is not racist, it
is a fact. It was not just an isolated incident, it took an entire nation's
effort to create events that made that much of a stir in history. It took an
entire culture to pull something off that big.
Consider that you are perpetuating these stereotypes in your efforts to
combat them. Consider that music belongs to nobody, but rather is a gift,
from God or whatever you
choose to attribute it to.
that sounds really good on paper, but lets be real. I think a more accurate
statement would be: "music has distinct and separate characteristics among
different cultures and those distinctions do in fact belong to each
particular culture."
The blurring of distinct cultural boundaries in the west arose in the 16th
century when travel and economics started to force separate cultures to come
together and create cultural hybrids. This lead to the combination of
western folksong and african rhythm to create forms like negro spirituals
and primitive blues, african rhythm, european classical music, and american
popular song formed into jazz... and this trend accelerated at the end of
the 19th Century when audio capture technology became a commercial reality."
Objectively, certain roots of our music belong to different cultures.
Polyrhythmic is about as african as it gets, standard pop/folk song
structure is a western folk thing, standard 12 tone tunings and music theory
are western...
We all have souls, regardless of color, and we are all capable of
expressing it through any means
we choose. I am white. I can write techno music. To claim this is
impossible because of my
ancestry is bigotry.
the one thing I am curious about is when did I ever say that white people
cannot write music? I will say the vast majority of white musical genres are
shite(uh, glam rock, rap-rock, john tesh) but it is not impossible for white
people to make good music.
It seems fairly obvious to me that not all blacks can dance and there are
some smooth white guys. The are black guys who have no rythm, and there are
white guys who never leave the pocket. To me, it is so obvious that it goes
without stating.
But if you look at larger patterns and groups of people do you notice a
difference? If you go to a deep urban house night with KDJ and Mike Clark vs
a candy rave with dj joeblow, is there a difference? Is it racist to assert
that in larger groups patterns emerge, and they have discernable
differences?
I have actually lived in predominantly black urban ghettos, and you can bet
that at least a few
black techno artists haven't. This has absolutely nothing to do with our
ability to write music.
uhh, when did I ever say that techno is ghetto music? See above, and see my
last post... re black middle classness...additionally see313archives: music
institute as last stand of black boho intelligencia...alan oldham ranting
about this ad nauseam in 98...Derrick May being more Warhol and less Chuck
D.
I
don't need anyone to tell me what I can or can't do, I do not need anyone's
permission to express
myself.
um, way to go.
Although I agree with many of your statements the conclusions you draw seem
very ignorant
to me.
And I think you read a lot of things into what I was saying that I did not
intend/were not there.
anyway, I think I have explained my point of view as well as I feel I need
to. If you don't like what I have to say that is fine and dandy. I generally
find that people who know me in person realize that my broad statements are
irreverant and funny, and people that know me from the list think I am a
angry 40 year old.
To bring this thread full circle, no, I don't believe that the white race is
single-handedly responsible for wrecking disco. There were a multitude of
factors that caused disco's creative decline. Was a mainstream white
audience part of the problem? did it spread dj talent too thin? did it water
down the concept, and make the music formulaic? Did it wreck distribution
channels and flood a market?
Nah, it was just goddamn whitey.
rlt'ly yrs,
mt
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