... It's amongst the oldest problems in the world and certainly the oldest problem in America. Let's leave it in the authoritarian unenlightened mainstream - after all, we're not like that here are we ;o) ... Let's try and tackle our concerns here with imagination, insight and a quest toward self-awareness - as analogues to what our music metaphorically is about.
Ken >-----Original Message----- >From: Alexandres Lugo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:49 PM >To: Cyborg K >Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org' >Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists] > > >Thank you for an excellent post. A lot of people would like to gloss over >the fact that racism still exists in America and yes, in the Detroit area. >They would like to pretend it's all done and over with and has not had an >effect on the creation of this music and that it does not matter what skin >color is behind the music. I would like to think that most people on this >list are above this BS of skin color, and that is what they are trying to >express by saying "why does it matter?" > >The first poster was not trying to bring up a racist topic AT ALL! It's >pretty sad that as soon as someone asks any questions on this list that >include the words "black artists" you have all these people jumping on him >and saying "it's not about that!!". It's not? Maybe not to you but to some >people it may be. > >The same thing goes for the misquote of Juan Atkins the other day and the >poster losing respect for him. That is the problem with the world today. >Someone has a different view of things and because they do not agree with >your world view you have "no respect" for him any more. Sad. > >Techno has been bastardized enough by drugs, raves, etc. and is now for the >most part considered to the outside world that doesn't know any better as >white music. Hence the frustration that Eddie was speaking of techno being >ignored by black audiences. Granted, a lot of that is caused by the >popularity of this thing they call rap and hip hop nowadays...pop music. > >All this to say: if someone on this is asking about black >influences/artists, don't assume they are trying to start a thread about >racism... > >Peace, >Alex >www.fulcruminn.net > >"Either they don't show, don't know, or don't give a fuck about >the ghetto." >Ice Cube > >-----Or >From: Cyborg K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:16 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > >JAMES PENNINGTON: >"The outer space stuff has always been a fascination because life on earth >has always been so hard for us being black. Maybe outer space has >no rules. > No one has gravity in space." > >from an interview posted on www.undergroundcommittee.com > > Let me preface this post be saying that I haven't posted on this list >in a long time, but I feel that this topic is too important to ignore. It >is impossible to analyze or understand cultural products without looking at >their social context; now some of you may not want to understand, would >prefer to be entertained without understanding, but I'm going to >assume that >if it is art then techno has potentials to raise consciousness and >on a list >dedicated to discussing DETROIT techno we have an obligation to try to >understand rather than simply consume and enjoy. First of all, it's >impossible to understand any AMERICAN music, much less DETROIT techno, >without looking at issues of racial injustice specifically the >relationships >of whites and blacks. WHY IS THIS? Because the rhythms that are >behind all >of our popular musics are to a great degree African derived, that's what >funk and soul is, it's the memory of these African rhythms passed down from >generation to generation by a people who were taken from their homeland. >Billy Hart, the great jazz drummer (in the 70's played with Pharoah Sanders >and the Herbie Hancock sextet) has lectured about the African derivation of >many of these rhythms, and has mentioned the possibility that these rhythms >may even have specific characteristics, that they may have physical and >spiritual aspects that act upon us when we hear them, an intriguing >possibility. The point is, these rhythms were brought over by African >slaves, and although the white masters attempted to completely >destroy their >culture and humanity, these rhythms were preserved and passed down... And >then, in the 20th century, we find a new situation--slavery has ended, and >again and again African-Americans are innovating and creating brilliant new >styles of music, combining the sounds of their and environment and Western >European influences with their own funky rhythms that they have preserved >through all these years, rhythms rooted in African spiritual culture. But >what happens??? Their rhythms are constantly hijacked and glossed over, >their innovations are taken from them, their names are erased, and >white-washed cultural commodities are produced that the white masses can >handle, commodities that no longer preserve the memory of an African >spiritual heritage. > Blues, jazz, rock/pop, house, techno, it's been happening the whole >20th century and now it looks like it's going to continue right on into the >21st. Meanwhile, in a city like Detroit you have a state of de fact >segration, a city full of African-Americans who have been abondoned to live >in a wasteland while the suburbs that surround them prosper, a place where >white people from the suburbs are AFRAID to visit the city, a city full of >black people. Now there are a lot of aspects to the problems with Detroit >that I can't get into, but how can you possibly understand "DETROIT TECHNO" >without looking at Detroit which is a segragated city. Not to mention the >fact that in America there is usually only one type of black artist that is >acceptable, and that is the one that smiles, jokes, makes a fool of himself >and panders to a white audience... I am a working musician (keyboards) and >I SAW IT MYSELF, just last week, I was on the bandstand. It made me sad, >but I can tell that behind the scenes these brothers are certainly not >smiling and dancing. Even hip-hop and R&B, while perhaps coming on as more >hardcore, seem to be producing a lot of music that can simply be enjoyed as >a big spectacle, that stereotypes what "blackness" is, you can >watch it from >your home in the suburbs and say, "OH, so that's what the ghetto >is like..." > As if the ghetto were now a spectacle for us all to enjoy rather than a >disgrace that no civilized people should allow to occur. > At this point let me relate something personal, I am white and I grew >up in a small town north of Lansing Michigan, and there were probably only >two black families in town. One day I was shocked to hear a classmate say, >and I don't like to repeat this but I'm going to because people need to >understand, "If I ever catch a nigger on my property I'm going to grab my >shotgun and kill him..." THAT is still the attitude of many white >Americans. And so when an African-American makes a techno record you can >BET that everything they have experienced, including racial injustice, is >going to go into that record. Why would Kevin Saunderson make a track with >a sample of MLK Jr saying "We find these truths to be >self-evident, that all >men are created equal...", why does Jay Denham have a track that >goes "Black >Power, it's time for Black Power", it's because these kind of conditions >still exist and art is a potential means to raise awareness of >them. Racial >problems only get worse when you ignore them. And to forget historical >injustice is to erase the victims from history and let the oppresors win. >We should never forget slavery in America, we should never forget Auswitchz >either (or Dresden and Hiroshima for that matter...) Only by remembering >can we hope to change the course of history so that these things don't >happen over and over and over again. Yes we should imagine utopian spaces, >"maybe outer space has no rules", BUT we should never confuse these utopias >with the world we live in, we have to fight to create these spaces and that >takes active recognition of the many forms of injustice on this >planet. And >that is why in the here and now we cannot afford to be color blind. > >MAD MIKE: >"...The programmers taught them that all brothers that didnt have on silver >shoes and didn't smile or laugh at bullshit jokes and small talk were >probably criminals... I am a very serious brother nothing that I >do or have >done with UR is funny or entertaining, I am not a clown and I will >never tap >dance on cue..." from a message to the 313 list > >/cyborgk: TECHNOLOGY IS POWER. > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: "Super Coffee Beans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ><313@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] >Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:50:08 +0200 > >put emphasis on the music, and the person who make, by asking this racial >questions u only make the racial problem. if u think about the persons who >make the music as REAL live person and not as black or white but as human, >things will be better. you might say i am just one little person and racial >problem is a fact- well if u want a change do the change. and those try to >demolish all this racial stuff from the discourse. >i know what i am saying i am jewish. >y. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:23 PM >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "armin holzgethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <313@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > > > > i still don't get it. > > > > > > what are you aiming at? how & where should this recognition express > > itself? on > > > mtv, usa today? how many people know stephen king? and how many know > > malcolm > > > lowry? > > > > I'm aiming at recognition in the electronic music underground. How to > > quantify recognition? Sure it's oblique... How about references in >histories > > of house (AV and textual) for one. Prolly a lame definition, but you get > > what I'm on about. > > > > > all those you mention are more or less known to people into >this music. > > some > > > will reach a certain status as "innovators", some will be forgotten. >some > > will > > > blow up by accident because the time is right and/or because they work > > towards > > > it. maybe this has sometimes to do with the quality and the aim of >their > > work > > > too? to blame it all on the circumstances seems to me as banal as the > > opposite, > > > which is to blame it all on the lack of marketing skills. > > > > I don't think that's the whole cup of tea. There's a mythos attached to >the > > term "Chicago House DJ" that is not parallel to "Detroit House >DJ" in the > > mind of the average club-goer who is somewhat in-the-know. For instance, > > "Chicago's Gene Farris" immediately has a credibility to the average >house > > club-goer that "Detroit's Terrence Parker" does not. To see this in >effect, > > look at a poster for Gene Farris' "Booked" CD. > > > > > tp has a relatively huge fanbase in germany because of his djing. all >of > > his > > > records i know of are mediocre. alan oldham's stuff lacks originality >big > > time. > > > just to be a detroiter and having started in 1988 is not enough. > > > > Yeah. TP has built a dedicated fan-base in Germany over the >years, but he >is > > relatively unknown and hasn't played in Washington DC in years >(if ever). > > This is a house music city and has been for over a decade. Ron Trent has > > been here (but he's known here for his work living in New York) >and Alton > > Miller has played here once. At the same time, at least 10 Chicago house >DJs > > have played here, not to mention endless DJs from New York >(although they > > have a geographical advantage to DJs form the midwest). In addition to >that, > > most "scenes" in the eastern U.S. "buy into" a New York version of the > > history of house/garage. Statements like "everyone knows house came from >New > > York" would not be uncommon, and generally reinforced through local > > promotions/myths/regional email lists, etc. Not only is the Chicago >history > > of house downplayed if recognized at all, the Detroit history >of house is > > completely absent. You could almost flip the coin and apply all of that >to > > Chicago - but not to the same degree, and again Detroit is missing from >the > > puzzle. History's are being written today, and it takes a history of >house > > and techno *in Detroit* to recognize Detroit House, although the impact >of > > Detroit house from the 80s was just as lasting as any other. Couldn't we >put > > the Music Institute right near the Warehouse and the Paradise Garage in > > terms of legendary clubs that defined and nurtured scenes? You can't try >to > > tell me this is even 1/10th as recognizable as either of the former in > > today's music histories. > > > > > self-esteem is not supposed to grow because of one's name in the paper >or > > a > > > certain number on one's bank statement, but because one feels that >he/she > > is > > > doing the right thing and maybe because one lifts the artform to new > > heights. > > > the name all over the paper and the big bucks in the bank are most of >the > > time > > > & and as long as this capitalist etc society stands a sign that one > > submitted & > > > adapted oneself successfully to the expectations of society. same as >good > > marks > > > at school. same as any institutional or mainstream >recognition. in this > > sense > > > most of the time mainstream success can be used as a sign for >irrelevance. > > > > What I was noting with my list was people who generally don't get the >same > > acclaim as their peers from the '80s in Chicago and New York in the > > histories of house - not specifically in terms of bank rolls. Detroit >house > > is something that most people into house can't even recognize. > > > > Tristan > > ---------- > > http://www.mp313.com <- Music > > http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more > > http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios > > http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email > > <FrogboyMCI> <- AOL Instant Messenger > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
