agreed. agreed. agreed. for more good, even-handed context on globalization and the incredible complexity of the phenomenon, see Naomi Klein's "No Logo."
as regards capitalism being the driving force behind techno (or increased gender equality): such an assumption is a denial of human agency. it suggests that people are not creative and simply react reflexively to their surroundings. to me, detroit techno is a living example of the absurdity of that phenomenon. people are creative and unpredictable. they react in interesting and unexpected ways. the genius of ur came from people like mike banks, not from some abandoned buildings downtown. sure, those buildings are part of the story, but the creativity that emerges from human cultures is the most important reason techno or any other form of expression exists. this is what i wrote my thesis on, and i believe it very much. ben On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, James Hurlbut wrote: > (313 reference in third paragraph of reply) > > "... it isn't something that can be 'stopped,' no matter what activists in > Seattle may wish. It simply IS - the dominant economic system governing the > entire post-Cold War world. " > > This is a common and dangerous misconception about the "anti-globalization" > movement. If you look at the most active organizations/people in the > movement you will find that they argue for a different form of > globalization that puts control into the hands of the majority of the > people of a country, the "workers" if your a marxist. It seems that you are > arguing that we should be happy that our corporations are making deals with > small technologically elite ruling classes in other countries, that doesn't > jive with me. I'm not comfortable with my government funding and training > small military controlling classes that rule the majority through terror ( > for obvious examples look at Pinochet in Chile, Sutharta in Indonesia, > Hussein in Iraq, the Shah of Iran ... most latin american countries at some > point in the last century). I'm not comfortable with they way that the US > government does most things. > > "it's like feminists complaining about the 'capitalist patriarchy,' > when industrial capitalism is what allowed this unprecedented era of gender > equity to exist in the first place." > > Industrial capitalism didn't allow for gender equity to exist, Industrial > workers did. Like the thousands of girls young women who striked for weeks > in the cold of winter at the textile mills in Lowell MA because the working > conditions were horrendous (there was a horrible fire that killed a whole > bunch of workers because the owners would lock the workers in on each > floor, is one of many examples). This is similar to the argument that we > shouldn't be out hollering on the streets about how bad our government is > because we live in an open society. We live in an open society BECAUSE > people have been out hollering on the streets. The US government has > grudgingly had to loosen it's hold on the people because of massive > organizing against racist laws mostly throughout the South, and because of > the early unions who had to battle the National guard just to get us an 8 > hour day! > > As for UR and techno in all of this: UR are capitalists because they live > in a capitalist world, they want to make music so they sell records. Sony > are capitalists because they control the capitalist world (along with AOL > Time warner, Dupont, and the other two or three companies that control most > of today's industry) and because they want to maximize their own profit at > all costs, like a cancer cell. Capitalism is only one way to exchange > information and goods, and to say that UR's beautiful music couldn't exist > without capitalism is, quite frankly, shortsighted and it doesn't give the > music the credit it deserves. > > Jamie > > > > >the very music we cherish is sustained by botique/niche capitalism. the > >technology which allows it to exist is the province of global conglomerates. > >it was inspired, in part, by the assembly line itself. just because the > >music is underground doesn't mean it's Marxist. the very idea that you could > >love techno music and not implicitly embrace or at least reconcile yourself > >with capitalism is, itself, a product of capitalist consumer lifestyle > >choice. it's like feminists complaining about the "capitalist patriarchy," > >when industrial capitalism is what allowed this unprecedented era of gender > >equity to exist in the first place. > > > >take UR as an example. they exist to "fight the programmers" through sonic > >revolution. but they're actually a business proposition. their music and > >iconography may explicitly and implicitly critique the homogenizing extremes > >of global capitalism, but it couldn't exist without that capitalism. to me, > >theirs is the real path toward keeping culture vibrant and alive in the face > >of the dominant system of globalization: acceptance of the system and the > >development of alternative marketplaces. not whinging about "globalization" > >as if it were something that could be stopped if only we got enough people > >to sign petitions. > > > >brian > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:15 AM > >To: 313@hyperreal.org > >Subject: [313] submerge.panel > > > > > > > >yeah this is a little late but..... > > > > > >i was at the submerge panel saturday morning of demf....it had a very "pro > >technology" flavor to it...imo that is rather problematic since technology > >has played a _large_ part in the rising levels of inequality both in the > >united states (the income of the poorest 20 percent of households has fallen > >in real terms by about 15 percent in the last 25 years) as well as in > >developing countries (increases in technology have led to globalization > >which has led to dramatic increases in inequity in these countries)..i > >understand that the panelists were not there to speak on such things but all > >of us have a responsiblity to understand our place in the world > > > >back to the music > > > >kathleen > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >mail2web - Check your email from the web at > >http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _____________,.................., > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ jamie /| > /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/,-' hurlbut / / > /_/_/_/_/_/_/,-' / / > /_/_/_/_/_/_,:................../ / > |________,' hurlbotics.com |/ > """"""""""""""""""""""""' > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ====data general=========== ==www.umich.edu/~btausig=== [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
