Late to a discussion about archives, sorry. 

Yes, I think you’re right that computers are performative spaces, and it’s 
perhaps because of this that the idea of an archive sits a bit strangely. Yes 
preservation is a ‘re-performance’, or at least, when that preservation is 
re-enacted each time we experience it through a machine. It’s the same 
re-enactment that takes place immediately after the work is finished, to 
greater or lesser degrees of similarity. This is especially true for things 
passed through a network to a client that could be anything. So, an archive is 
just a version of something that was versioned every time it was performed by 
machines. In this way, emulation has no special meaning, and authenticity 
doesn’t make any sense. 

> 'dated vs dynamic' - @Lucy Yes I guess this gets into the function of an
> archive today. Is it meant to preserve in some minimal sense as much work
> from as long ago as possible? When tweets get pushed below the monitor
> 'fold' in 30 seconds, what is old anyway? In a post web 2.0 space, Is the
> ability to 'curate' these works a vital feature for using and remembering
> them?


I think this is especially interesting. Curating, reenacting, and remembering 
and three beautiful ideas of how to deal with oldness. All these things.




> On 13/01/2015, at 1:52 pm, Luke Munn <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for responses guys, was expecting another monologue ending in radio
> silence to be honest. ;-) Some quick responses....
> 
> 'dated' - @Sean Of course an archive by definition contains older material,
> understood. I guess the interesting thing for me just browsing some of the
> ADA works is what appears dated (anachronistic) and what doesn't. Much of
> what appears as 'net art' or even 'new aesthetic' camp falls into the
> former for me, while occasional works such as Thompson & Craigheads
> 'Thalamus' somehow avoid this visual pigeonholing. In other words, the
> works which deal *structurally* with the digital (nonlinearity, memory,
> performativity, etc) seem to wear much better than the works which deal
> with it formally or aesthetically.
> 
> Or, as @John notes, the digital medium is more 'accidental' due to its
> ubiquity. Of course the medium matters but there is work that is less or
> more medium-specific I think (think Nam June Paik, JODI, etc).
> 
> FWIW I find the idea of a self-built archive as counter-power rather
> precarious, control can still exist with decentralization (Galloway). This
> might seem a rather abstract point, but it actually becomes practical very
> quickly. If we admitted that every org comes with its own biases, ADA could
> be built on a mix of (politically flawed but usability-wise flawless)
> technologies, YouTube, etc. Instead ADA must maintain this kind of
> outsider/open source status and runs choppy self-hosted video and Typo3
> pages which break on mobile.
> 
> 'dated vs dynamic' - @Lucy Yes I guess this gets into the function of an
> archive today. Is it meant to preserve in some minimal sense as much work
> from as long ago as possible? When tweets get pushed below the monitor
> 'fold' in 30 seconds, what is old anyway? In a post web 2.0 space, Is the
> ability to 'curate' these works a vital feature for using and remembering
> them?
> 
> Dragan Espenshied, archivist at Rhizome, has some really interesting
> thoughts about the computer as primarily a performance space. If the
> preservation of work is seen more as a 're-performance', then ideas of
> emulation and accessibility trump those of authenticity. A cloud--based
> Netscape Navigator streaming over broadband into a Chrome window.
> http://rhizome.org/editorial/2014/oct/22/big-data-little-narration/
> 
> cheers,
> Luke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 January 2015 at 11:42, Lucinda Wheeler <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> 
>> Good thread.
>> 
>> I am interested in the Anarchive
>> 
>> http://www.researchcatalogue.net/view/89371/89372/0/21 ‏
>> *The Anarchive. The anarchive refers to the fact that the archive in the
>> digital age never sits still. Digital media events are reactivatable by
>> nature, and lend themselves to re-uptake, remix and contagion. There is an
>> in-built unruliness to them. This calls into question traditional practices
>> of documentation and archiving, which operate on a model of passive
>> storage. The anarchive is a kind of dynamic, open-air archiving in which
>> media events are let loose to proliferate through networks, mutating as
>> they go, and triggering follow-on events.*
>> 
>> Lucy Wheeler
>> 
>> 
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 22:37:21 +0000
>>> CC: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [Ada_list] another ADA
>> 
>>> 
>>> Just replied offline to Luke, putting him in touch with Oliver Grau who
>> runs the other ADA project
>>> 
>>> two cents worth:
>>> 
>>> Digital: for fifty-odd years this wasn’t ubiquitous: anyone older than
>> forty will remember trying to explain to people what email was or the web.
>> The problem with the idea of The Digital (and I share din this) was
>> speaking/writing as if there were only one. From roughly 1915 to roughly
>> 2000, the word “film” meant a flat rectangular movie made with
>> photomechanical technologies. From about 1949 to about 2000, TV meant a
>> flow of images and sound sectioned into programmes / ads/ dents etc using
>> basic set-ups and kit. Thus the idea that ‘film’ and ‘TV’ were
>> medium-specific media. Digital was never that specific. Instead, like post
>> 2000 film / TV (print, sculpture, take your pick), each new job involved
>> inventing new plug-ins at least, often new software, not infrequently new
>> machinery. Digital = medium very specific. To understand a work, you need
>> to understand the specific kit used.
>>> 
>>> this would be one reason why things in the archive look dated. Um.
>> Satchmo c. 1926 sounds “dated”. The General looks dated. 80s synth pop
>> sounds dated. Inventing a new way of making and distributing involves
>> things that we like and things we don’t like decades later. The important
>> thing is that the invention of a new medium - and the digital was not
>> always ubiquitous and familiar - involved loads of things we no longer use
>> and have forgotten. Whatever happened to vector screens? Why is CSS
>> “better” when it ends the user’s control over design? Is there nothing to
>> learn from the lost experiments of the past?
>>> 
>>> the archive is a living entity - Derrida and Foucault were wrong. Or if
>> not: when the archive already exists (as in state archives) it may be an
>> instrument of power - when WE build an archive it may be an instrument of
>> counter-power
>>> 
>>> Kaupapa maori has something to teach us about how to respect the past
>>> 
>>> sean
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 21:54, John Hopkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 12/Jan/15 13:52, Luke Munn wrote:
>>>>> Contains some great learnings on how not to setup a digital archive.
>>>> 
>>>> snip... yep Luke, I agree...
>>>> 
>>>>> The distinct (and must be said, dated) aesthetic of most of these
>> works
>>>>> nevertheless poses an interesting question for our ADA too. What role
>> does
>>>>> the 'digital' now have as commonality when digital and network
>> technologies
>>>>> have shifted from marginal to ubiquitous? In other words, when the
>> internet
>>>>> has become banality and 'every artist working today is a post internet
>>>>> artist, lets move on' (Darling), does it make any sense to
>> differentiate
>>>>> 'digital' as both a separate medium and community? When 90% of your
>>>>> 'viewers' are hits on your website looking at photoshopped
>> documentation
>>>>> taken with CCD chips, where is the boundary line? I don't really have
>>>>> answers to these questions, and personally find communities like ADA,
>>>>> Rhizome and Net-time hugely beneficial, but its worth thinking about
>> what
>>>>> we mean with terms like 'digital art' and what the real common
>> threads in
>>>>> these works and communities are.
>>>> 
>>>> There was a similar implosion in the 'world' of art photography when
>> it came 'round that it simply another tool for an artist to use, another
>> way of putting a mark on paper. Across Europe & elsewhere numerous photo
>> museums and photo 'centers' closed because the distinction that it was a
>> 'special' medium was redundant. They were used in the heyday as funding
>> tools to secure funding/public support for artists working in that
>> 'revolutionary new medium'... This after a decades-long fight to be
>> 'recognized' as an art medium at all... sounds familiar...
>>>> 
>>>> In the digital it is somewhat similar -- with only narrow slices not
>> meant for projection/screen or, in some cases still, paper or other 2D
>> substrate -- or analog speakers -- there isn't much that does not 'fit'
>> under what has become a swath of traditional rubrics: sound art,
>> documentation of performance art, moving images, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Certainly projects that are using/creating digital tools to do other
>> things is imho a legit application of the 'digital art' idea. As an artist
>> that worked and still occasionally works using 'the network' as site and
>> partially as medium, even that area of working seems to have become
>> ubiquitous (and in a perverse way, utterly banal) -- to the point that I
>> keep running into younger artist who tell me they are doing "the first
>> network music collaboration" of some sort, huh?
>>>> 
>>>> The whole field seems to be a mash-up of sustainability, diy, diwo,
>> 3D-printing, bio-art, balh-blah-blah, and whatever the latest spin tossed
>> out by Silicon Valley. Yep, the distinction is becoming passé...
>>>> 
>>>> JH
>>>> --
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD
>>>> grounded on a granite batholith
>>>> twitter: @neoscenes
>>>> http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> 
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