Re: ' You invent the script and then you act it out.' But this is equating the idea of fiction with the idea of a plan. So, what is not fictional = what is not planned?
The term fiction I agree is an elusive one, but I took it that it was being contrasted with the idea of the real or the true. DA .On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:39 AM, William Conger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Even your conscious thought processes are fictional, > make-believe. You invent an ongoing script, as it > were, of those chaotic moment to moment experiences, > sorting them and inventing your nxt moment raction and > action, providing yourself a basic coherence. You > invent the script and then you act it out. You can > test this easily. Go to the corner and prepare to > cross the street. After you make it to the other side > reflect on the thought processes you had, what you > allowed in consciousness and what you excluded > (similar acceptance and rejection may occur > unconsciously too). You quickly realize that you > invented a fairly succinct script, predicting what > will happen as you make decisions, and ignoring a > plethora of other events you might have focussed on > had you other interests in mind, such as noticing what > birds may be flying above. In this sense at least our > processing of experiences is not unlike the > "composition" in artworks. So I don't think we can > isolate the coherence of composition as a > distinguishing feature of art, unless we say daily > life experience, the way we process it and create > fictional scripts to play out, are art as well. > > WC > > > --- Derek Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Re "And that's probably why Derek challenged it -- > > since even if a > > Raskolnikov never existed -- the story about him > > might be considered > > important because something about his psychology is > > felt to be very real." > > > > Yes exactly. > > > > It's arguable in fact that our everyday experiences > > are so chaotic - so > > formless and lacking in consistency - that, while > > they may be real enough in > > terms of their consequences (they affect what we > > actually do), they never > > possess the kind of clarity and apprehensibility > > they achieve in a work of > > art. So in a sense they only become real i.e. > > distinct and fully described > > - in a work of art. > > > > So, claiming that all art depends on fiction (and it > > is a common enough > > claim eg one well known contemporary aesthetician, > > whose name I have > > temporarily forgotten, argues that all art depends > > on 'make believe') seems > > a fairly superficial observation to me. What in the > > end is 'real' in the > > realm of human experience? What we encounter in > > everyday life? Or the form > > it takes in art? > > > > -- > > Derek Allan > > > http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Chris Miller > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Brady's notion of "fictional" would seem to be > > awkwardly replaceable by a > > > phrase like "not relevant to reality claims" -- as > > a sports broadcast > > > would > > > be("did he really catch the ball inbounds?" -- > > "did the Niners really > > > win?") > > > > > > And that's probably why Derek challenged it -- > > since even if a Raskolnikov > > > never existed -- the story about him might be > > considered important because > > > something about his psychology is felt to be very > > real. > > > > > > Which also might account for Derek's additional > > challenge: > > > "I am trying to pretend this discussion of sport > > on a philosophy of art > > > list > > > is not happening." > > > > > > And I also feel that there's something dreadful > > about emphasizing the > > > similarity between great moments in sports with > > the performances of > > > Shakespeare. > > > > > > I suppose there's no doubting that Cheerskep feels > > like he has an AE with > > > both > > > of them -- but unless we can determine some > > special quality about that > > > Shakespeare AE -- well, what's the point of > > telling kids to study great > > > literature --- when any jackass can go to the > > ballpark and have a great > > > time? > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > Click to get a free auto insurance quotes from top > > companies. > > > > > > > > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNj8KEugM29E9wmEKphl5A8 > > > > > > 6jZnxH47rOQIDv1WUjDC3JrO/?count=1234567890< > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.ne > > > > t/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNj8KEugM29E9wmEKphl5A86jZnxH47rOQIDv1WUjDC3JrO/?count=12 > > 34567890> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm> > > -- Derek Allan http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm
