William: The reference to "what most persons equate to truthful" was not intended as a criterion of truthfulness but as a reflection on the connotations of 'fiction". I quite agree that our civilization has made progress by the quest for new 'truths" many of which have been unpopular with groups of people. However, not all that's new and unpopular with some people is "true". Madame Blavatsky anyone?
Geoff C
----- Original Message ----- From: "William Conger" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Malcolm Gladwell and beliefs)


If we had to verify our thinking by "what most persons equate to truthful" we'd still be in the stone age. That is an appeal to naive realism, the reliance on appearances to determine truth. Remember the stick appearing bent in the jar of water? Lesson number one in any philosophy or scientific handbook.

WC


--- On Thu, 1/1/09, Geoff <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Geoff <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Malcolm Gladwell and beliefs)
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 2:57 PM
Michael: I agree that our perceptions are constructed. I
don't agree that
fictitious is understood by most persons to equate to
truthful.
We may equally construe fictional/imagined persons or
verifiably existent
persons. Let us not confuse the process
(construction/construal) with the
object (fictional/made-believed) with the valid.
Geoff C
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Brady"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Malcolm Gladwell and beliefs)


> On Jan 1, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Geoff wrote:
>
>> I assume we all accept that her existence is of
another order than  Paul
>> Newman's (former) existence. As that different
order is  recognized,
>> discord/misunderstanding is reduced. Yes, our
perceptions are
>> constructions - but the construction Snow White is
 of a different order
>> than the construction Paul Newman.
>
> The existence of both might be of different orders,
but your  perceptions
> or constructions are of the same order. That's the
point  William
> makes--and is a corollary of Cheerskep's constant
reminders  that meaning
> resides in the mind, not the word -- namely, your
thoughts and ideas
> about a thing or topic are not the thing or topic
itself, they are
> proxies, substitutes, representations, or as William
puts it, "as-if
> stand-ins," in other words, fictions. [Fiction is
 derived etymologically
> from Latin, fingere, to form or contrive;  related
words are feign and
> figment.] So the notion of Snow White is a  figment of
the imagination;
> the notion of Paul Newman is equally a  figment, but
of memories of
> previous reports of a supposed actual  person. Note
that for most people
> who have never met Paul Newman, his  existence is of
the same order as
> Snow White's, i.e., known to us  through reports
and stories.
>
>
>
>
> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> Michael Brady
> [email protected]

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