William, you write:

"Harris would agree
to some extent, I believe, that the communication as intended does not 
occur
until both speaker/writer and hearer/reader agree about the intended 
meaning,
insofar as they can, albeit always imperfectly.   This is way conversation
usually involves a back and forth exchange, narrowing the shared meaning to 
a
mutually agreeable form.   This form is what Harris regards a context." 

I don't think you have Harris's idea there, William. For him, the "context" 
of a spoken phrase is a compound of the sound of the phrase, all the other 
inputs to your mind from the surrounding situational elements, plus your 
memory of past connections with the phrase and the surrounding elements. If, on 
a bright, sunny day, a woman asks, "Can you lend me an umbrella?" the 
notion that arises in your mind will be different from the one that would rise 
if 
it were raining. Then you remember that this is the woman who often 
expressed concern for her fragile skin under a bright sun. So you conclude she 
wants the umbrella as a parasol. That, in Harris's view, is 
"contextualization". 
I continue to maintain it's not an original or profound observation on his 
part. I plead not guilty to your insinuation that I merely dismiss what he 
says as "fuzzy categorization". I have seriously tried to discern what could 
have been on his mind. Note my next comment - a search for what's in your 
head as you use the term 'represents'. 

Then you write:

"It's the context that determines how words are representatives of 
constructed meaning."   

I don't know what Harris would say, but I can honestly tell you I'm not 
sure how you think words can "represent" anything. If, by "constructed 
meaning", what you have in mind is the notion prevailing in my head after my 
mind 
and memory process the phrase and the situational add-ons, I myself would 
never say that any words could "represent" that subsequent notion. I've never 
seen a description of the alleged ACT of "representation" that seemed cogent 
to me. "The word 'apple' represents the fruit on the table over there." "The 
word 'freedom' represents the ability and allowance to do what I want." 
Those statements are merely descriptions of unclear notions you have in mind 
when those words are mentioned.   'Represents' suggests to me some sort of 
fuzzy mind-independent ontic connection that feels, fictional, imaginary, to 
me. 
  "The phrase 'Commander-in-Chief' represents Barak Obama." I'm not faking 
it when I say "represents" is far too fuzzy for serious philosophic 
conversation. 

You write:

"The context takes precedence over any presumption that a word is a stable 
signifier." 

Harris would agree but probably note that the "word" is part of the 
"context". And I would join in the claim that a word is not a stable modifier.

You write:
"you have a responsibility to try to interpret the
speaker/writer's context and to add to it or help shape it." I can't HELP 
but interpret when my senses pick things up. Agreed that my efforts are more 
or less sharp (or interested) on a given day, but all things considered I 
think I've been bringing a due amount of attention to this discussion. 


You also write:

"OK, Cheerskep, so let's try to state the issue:   You hear someone say 
something
or you read what they say.   You decide that there are so many different 
ways to
interpret the statement that you can't know what the speaker/writer has in 
mind
to communicate.   Thus the communication is fuzzy and no specific meaning 
can be
defined.   This always puts you in the position of being the decider and it
always put the speaker/writer in the position of supplicant."

Decider of what? Who other than the listener should decide if what he's 
just heard has occasioned a serviceably clear notion in the decider's head? I 
don't gripe about everything. When someone says, "Please pass the salt," that 
usually works for me. In a sense, the speaker/writer is always the 
supplicant unless he's just jerking you around. HIS "responsibility" is to come 
up 
with phrasing that, along with attendant situational add-ons, will go a 
serviceably long way in contributing to the goal of the listener's conjuring 
the 
desired notion. The speaker can't entirely control the notion-molding effect 
of the listener's memories, (but he can try by, say, describing what he 
does NOT "mean").

In closing, I add this: I'm dismayed to see you think of my postings as 
largely instances of my simply crying "Fuzzy categorizations!" and ignoring 
specifics. I claim I try hard 
to respond to specifics. I myself am vexed to present a list of specific 
objections and assertions and have them largely ignored by an interlocutor - 
which, I submit, is what you did after my following specific indictment of 
Harris's thinking. 



To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, May 21, 2012 3:22:37 PM
Subject: Re: On Roy Harris 2 0f 2

Here's a further attempt to articulate where (in my view) Roy Harris went
wrong.



Here is the link to Harris's own summary statement of his position:
http://www.royharrisonline.com/integrational_linguistics/integrationism_intr
o
duction.html



That summary has many interesting remarks, some of which I'd certainly call
"insights". But, strangely in a thesis about "integration", his view is
fundamentally non-coherent. I think Harris fails in this way because he 
does
not describe his notion behind such key terms as 'sign', 'meaning',
'communication', and even 'contextualization". If he had forced himself to 
do
that - for example, to ask himself what he basically has in mind when he
speaks of "human communication"   I believe he would have written something
much more useful and defensible.



Here are two extended quotes from Harris:


"2a. Language is the faculty that underlies both speech and writing. It may 
be
considered one part or facet of a more comprehensive faculty: that of
sign-making (for which there is no general term in common use). If we adopt
the term sign, however, it must be clearly understood that for the
integrationist a sign is not a form which carries its own meaning 
permanently
around with it. A sign acquires a meaning only when occurring in a specific
context."



"4a. Language, then, is the human capacity for communication by integrating
signs into series of activities, some of which involve speech or writing or
both..
4b. That is why integrationism pays far more attention to contextualization
than any other approach to language. There is no linguistic topic on which
more naive and simplistic ideas abound than about context. There are no
context-free signs, whether verbal or non-verbal. Contextualization is a
complex activity, still too often neglected and poorly theorized. It is not
just a function of the immediate situation, but of the entire 
communicational
experience of the participants. The act of contextualization is the act by
which the sign is identified as a sign. No contextualization, no sign. This 
is
a basic assumption of integrational linguistics.
4c. Contexts are not given: they are constructed by the participants in
particular communication situations. How exactly this is done   how the
distinctions are drawn between what is relevant and what is not   no one 
has
yet explained. Integrational research aims to explore this problem.
4d. The complexity of contextualization is one of the reasons why
misunderstandings are common in human communication. Individuals 
contextualize
differently from one another, depending on the personal experience they 
bring
to bear on dealing with a given situation. Not even in the case of 
identical
twins do two individuals share the same history of communicational
experience."

Harris does not appear to keep clear the distinction between what he'd call 
a
"sign" (a spoken or written "word", a gesture, even a factor in environment
smoke in the hall, rain, a growl from a lion) and the content of the mind
receiving these signs.

Harris is right to feel all of these signs can combine to occasion the next
notions that arise in a person's mind.
But Harris doesn't see the implication of his own excellent observation:
"Contextualization. . . is not just a function of the immediate situation, 
but
of the entire communicational experience of the participants."

When he says, " A sign acquires a meaning only when occurring in a specific
context," I claim he is thinking of "the meaning" as the notion that arises 
in
the receiver's mind. The receiver, takes in these new "signs" and processes
them, which involves connecting them with his memories. Everything you 
might
say to someone   -- "apple", "fire", "foopgoom", "appelsin" --   depends on 
the
receiver's memory for the image, feeling, idea that then arises in the
receiver's mind. It is this processing that Harris thinks of as
"conceptualization"

I understand why Harris says "the sign acquires the meaning", but what 
Harris
actually is thinking is that the mind of the receiver acquires something, a
rising notion. It's understandable but misleading to say the sign has 
acquired
anything at all. The sign is absolutely unchanged. Harris is thinking 
straight
when he says "a sign is not a form which carries its own meaning 
permanently
around with it". But he's gone wrong when he suggests the sign itself EVER
"has a meaning". That error, among others, has repercussions throughout 
what
I've read by him.

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