Agreed. -Lew Schwartz
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:14 AM, saul ostrow <[email protected]> wrote: > Actually, what seems to have done this was the destruction of the middle > classes who once thought education was not only a way to get ahead but to > improve one's self - sometime in the 70s when the middle classes because > they were the only one with economic reserves became economically > vulnerable as such improving oneself came to mean preserving oneself > economically - the irony is that today, education does not guarantee one > will do better than their parents > > *CriticalPractice* > 21 TREET PROJECTS > La Table Ronde > 162 West 21 Street > NYC, NY 10011 > > [email protected] > www.21stprojects.org > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Lew Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I accept that, however dumbing down the goal so as to create the fiction > of > > success has merely disqualified us from the game and in freefall towards > > ever lower levels of achievement. > > > > -Lew Schwartz > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:54 AM, saul ostrow <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > very english Public School and ivy thinking - not very American > public > > > school were literacy was the goal > > > > > > *CriticalPractice* > > > 21 TREET PROJECTS > > > La Table Ronde > > > 162 West 21 Street > > > NYC, NY 10011 > > > > > > [email protected] > > > www.21stprojects.org > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Lew Schwartz <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > My point was not to argue that we must include "ART," but that a real > > > > engagement with the classical definition of education ... bringing > out > > > > what's best in each student will naturally bring about motivation > > toward > > > > learning, work, professions and the arts. > > > > -Lew Schwartz > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:40 AM, saul ostrow <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Increasingly those pedagogues who are less instrumental in their > > > thinking > > > > > and understand that creativity is the next big skill (commodity) > have > > > > > transformed the anagram of STEM into that of STEAM the A of course > > > stands > > > > > for art. The logic is that Art (not as a career choice bu) as a > skill > > > set > > > > > supplies a heuristic model - ie trial and error learning - a > question > > > > > creation - without focusing on getting the correct answer as much > as > > > > > getting unexpected results - seemingly our scientist , engineers, > and > > > > > mathematicians are no longer competitively as creative as they once > > > were > > > > > because they focus more on the solution than on how might they > > > formulate > > > > > the question > > > > > *CriticalPractice* > > > > > 21 TREET PROJECTS > > > > > La Table Ronde > > > > > 162 West 21 Street > > > > > NYC, NY 10011 > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > www.21stprojects.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:02 AM, William Conger < > > [email protected] > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All this talk about kids and what and how they learn and whether > or > > > not > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > practical is not interesting beyond the level of magazine > articles. > > > > Yes, > > > > > > kids > > > > > > learn differently (see Gardiner's Multiple Intelligences) and > yes, > > > > except > > > > > > for > > > > > > the privileged children the the very rich, they need to find ways > > to > > > be > > > > > > useful > > > > > > in society. There are, obviously, many ways to do that. On a > > forum > > > > like > > > > > > this, > > > > > > with many artists and other creatives on board, it's not going to > > be > > > > easy > > > > > > to > > > > > > argue against nurturing kids' imaginations. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a youngster who only cared about art I never gave a moment's > > > thought > > > > > to > > > > > > how I > > > > > > would survive as an artist or at all when I grew up, despite the > > > > > > consternation, > > > > > > worry and hand-wringing of Depression-era parents. And I always > > had > > > a > > > > > > part-time > > > > > > job from the age of thirteen until college and after college I > > never > > > > was > > > > > > one day > > > > > > without a job until age seventy. Even now I work every day and > > earn > > > > > money > > > > > > with > > > > > > my art. Without inheritance I was able to raise a family and > live > > > > pretty > > > > > > well > > > > > > and give my kids debt free educations at top schools. Maybe I > was > > > just > > > > > > lucky > > > > > > yet I do believe people should pay their own ways and, if they > need > > > to, > > > > > > earn > > > > > > whatever is required to do what they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, it's a blend of following one's own drummer while also being > > > useful > > > > > to > > > > > > society that make the most sense in a democratic capitalistic > > > society. > > > > > > Education curricula and societal ideals should provide for both. > > > > What's > > > > > > more > > > > > > annoying than a society that degrades imagination and creativity > > for > > > > the > > > > > > sake of > > > > > > emphasizing routine job skills? And what's more demoralizing than > > > > people > > > > > > who > > > > > > think their uniqueness and so-called free-spirit creativity > > entitles > > > > them > > > > > > to be > > > > > > fully supported on a public dole? > > > > > > wc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: joseph berg <[email protected]> > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Sat, February 9, 2013 3:41:08 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: Skills children learn from the arts > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:37 PM, joseph berg <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Lew Schwartz < > [email protected] > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Even more annoying about tripe like this is the presumption > that > > > > > > everyone > > > > > > >> agrees on the same achieve/success/money definition of > > education. > > > > It's > > > > > > >> enraging. What happened to personal fulfillment, insight or > joy? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > They've become unaffordable luxuries for more and more people > in > > > the > > > > > > > 21st-c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people > dream > > of > > > > > thing > > > > > > that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work > > and > > > > > don't > > > > > > have time for all that. > > > > > > > > > > > > George Carlin
