Given that many (in fact most) WISPs are very small businesses, there
has always been a tendency in WISPA from the early days not to view
ourselves as serious businesses, but more of a hobby, side gig, or
social network. That’s also a view popular in some “new economy”
startups.
That’s fine, if you never intend to grow really big or sell your
business or quit your day job. Or hire more than a handful of
employees, and offer them big company benefits and career tracks.
I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but if you’re serious
about your business, at some point you need more than a cellphone and
Facebook. (You also need friends that aren’t work friends.) You
discover there are reasons established businesses do things a certain
way other than they’re old and stodgy.
As far as Facebook, I use it to communicate with customers, but I
don’t really like it. It only reaches maybe 10% of them (honestly
almost all moms). They also assume that’s our preferred method of
communicating back to us, while we view it as more of a blog and
announcement system. The rest of the customers think it makes us look
unprofessional because we are using a social networking platform they
have no interest in joining to announce things like outages and
planned maintenance. Pissed off customer asks why we didn’t notify
customers we were going to replace a tower router or AP, and we say
that we posted to our Facebook page, and that just makes them more
pissed off. I have to agree, we need something more businesslike and
professional, but Twitter or Slack or whatever isn’t the answer. We
probably need to be posting to our own website, or let customers
subscribe to an email or text message announcement list. Email and
texts are near universal with our customers, voice calls not so good
because people ignore voicemails, none of the social media platforms
have significant penetration. Social media doesn’t reach the majority
of our customers, despite what you might think from the media. Like
with all the tweets from Trump, you’d think most people are on
Twitter, actually that’s not even remotely true. We hear about it
because Twitter is like a press release, the media picks up stories
and that’s how regular people hear about it. OK, maybe the diehard
Kardashian and Taylor Swift and Beyonce fans follow them on Twitter.
If I really thought we could get all our customers to install the
Twitter app and follow us, I would use that to announce outages and
stuff. But I really expect customers would tell me I’m a moron if I
told them that plan. The two things they accept as mainstream are
emails and text messages. Those also have the advantage of immediacy.
You see it right away, and if you need to reply, you can do that right
away also.
WISPA as an organization also needs to decide how it views itself.
Are we a social network for WISP owners and employees? Or a
professional organization that should operate like a business?
I would resist the view that Facebook is stealing away our forum
traffic. People are going to network. Social networking is good for
that, whether it’s Facebook or LinkedIn. It’s not necessarily bad if
some “non mission critical” traffic goes elsewhere. After all, another
complaint that has come up in the past has been too much email traffic
on the lists. Some people unsubscribe because evidently it’s too much
trouble to hit delete or create message rules to sort messages into
folders. So maybe ask, is the traffic moving to social media traffic
that needs to be on a WISPA managed platform? Is WISPA falling down
on its job to provide essential services to members, and that’s why
people are turning to sites like Facebook? If the answer is yes, then
maybe a change is needed. But only with an understanding of the goals
and the problem we are trying to fix.
People are social and are going to use social media no matter what,
and it’s not necessarily a bad thing.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:29 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
I hate all things FB unless I am working as a contractor building
stuff for them. Then I love FB.
*From:*Mathew Howard
*Sent:*Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:21 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
Facebook groups are not forums...
As much as I dislike forums, I must admit, I dislike facebook groups
much more (although in a different way)
On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 9:07 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
"Would a forum have done as well?"
If you define Facebook groups as a forum, the answer is yes. The
Facebook groups and pages did respond well to the issue. The
difference between AFMUG and the others is that Forrest's
expertise in the matter was on AFMUG.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:41:27 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
IMHO, projects should have goals, otherwise they are change for
change sake.
One needs to ask, what problem does this solve?
It is popular to categorize people as either conservative or
progressive, which I think is false. Most people are both. They
want to fix what’s broke, and keep what works.
So what’s broke, how does this change fix it, and are any babies
being thrown out with the bathwater?
I see a lot of vendor forums. Some work, many don’t. The key
seems to be that a vendor forum needs the vendor to have
moderators constantly monitoring the forum posts and recruiting
internal resources to respond. Unless you just want it to serve a
social function, rather than being transactional, like
announcements or requests for assistance. Unmoderated vendor
forums tend to become a space for bloviation and for noobs to
foolishly ask for help not realizing nobody will respond.
Look how well this list responded to the GPS problem when the
GLONASS rollover occurred. Would a forum have done as well?
Now it’s possible this is much fuss over nothing. Maybe what
WISPA is contemplating is a mere technical change that will allow
the existing transactional email format to continue, while also
providing a convenient archive for the people who visit only
occasionally or when they are researching something, maybe with
cool search features. But I still ask, what problem is being solved?
There has been a long running discussion at WISPA that pretty much
consists of “I like lists” vs “I like forums”. It seems like
either somebody feels it’s time for the forum likers to have a
turn, or else the new WISPA software has a forum feature that
somebody wants to use. But decision making without goals is
basically “listening to your gut”. My gut wants a fish taco.
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:59 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
It doesn't seem like members@ is being used much anyways. It's so
low traffic, that I thought I got removed for some reason.
At least we still have AFMUG, amirite?
On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dennis Burgess via AF
<af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
Yep. While I really thing that the WISPA mailing lists are
important, moving it to a forum and discontinuing mailing list
would be a bad idea for WISPA.
*Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage,
Cambium ePMP Certified
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
*Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services *
Office*: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
<http://www.towercoverage.com>
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:36 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
When a couple non-WISPA FB groups became popular, WISPA
mailing list traffic plummeted.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com&umid=F35A4989-9B8C-FC05-8FFD-D714EE199469&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-ba2a74ae624d6c038621c1c64097aeab4a24f399>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Monday, January 6, 2020 11:54:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPA email list
I don’t use the book of face so I’m unfamiliar.
I think wispa should offer every opportunity for us to
communicate and not limit it to just forums. Forums are get
for knowledge base/tech support type stuff because you have
a threaded searchable archive. But it’s a repository of
knowledge, not a communications platform for interactive daily
stuff. I check wispa, animal farm and NANOG email lists
multiple times a day. Cambium went to forums which makes
sense for a solutions provider so that they have the
searchable database, but I go there maybe monthly to check for
new software or known issues. But I’m not very active in
their community, mostly because I don’t have time to also go
login and check a forum. Email is constantly flowing my way
and I interact with it all throughout the day.
One way to find out I guess is to gather some data. Find out
how many messages are currently being sent and then look at
the data after it’s forums only. My money is on a steep
decline in engagement...I know personally I won’t be on
there. Not because I don’t want to be there, but it’s simply
I don’t have the time to add yet another thing to go log into
and check to my daily life.
2 cents
-Sean
You can catch me on afmug (animal farm) or nanog
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 10:21 PM Daniel White
<dwh...@atheral.com <mailto:dwh...@atheral.com>> wrote:
Yes it is going away to a forum. Personally not a fan
myself but demand seems to be more for forums than the
mailing lists. Will also make some of the committee work
that happens easier so I have been told.
Most of the day to day conversation happens on Facebook
anymore... was the only reason I ever signed up. Not sure
what was so wrong about e-mail :-)
photograph
*Daniel White
*Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
*phone:*+1 (702) 470-2766
*direct:*+1 (702) 470-2770
Ken Hohhof wrote on 1/6/20 19:10:
You mean the main members list? Where did you hear it
was going away?
*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 6, 2020 7:55 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] WISPA email list
I thought the WISPA email list was going to be shut
off. But just now I got an email. Like to delete my
folder once it is defunct.
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