They want 5 to 10 Gbps of peak traffic to your ASN before they will give you a box. Matt, I know you are too small to have a Netflix cache on your network so you must be referencing your upstream provider has one.
You're correct that the IP's shouldn't change often from the box but there is still some Netflix traffic that will come from other Netflix servers outside the box. If it's just one box, it might not hold their entire library where other Netflix caches on IX's may have 10+ servers and hold the entire library and can handle 1 Tbps+ of throughput for example. On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 5:12 PM Erich Kaiser via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > I think they don't like providing them anymore due to maintenance and > hardware costs. We have one in SLC due to no Netflix peering available, > most major cities they are on the local IX or you can get a PNI with them. > > > > > Erich Kaiser > North Central Tower > er...@northcentraltower.com > Office: 815-570-3101 > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 5:03 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> I dunno, we got one years ago. Just asked for it. >> >> *From:* Erich Kaiser >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 23, 2020 3:54 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The Future >> >> You need enough traffic to justify it, they are not easy to get. You >> would be better off going to an IX where they exist. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 4:47 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> Can't you get a netflix box from netflix? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Matt Hoppes >>> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2020 3:42 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Darin Steffl >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The Future >>> >>> We have a Netflix CDN... I'm literally trying to get a MikroTik >>> consultant who can write a simple queue. >>> >>> I'm finally just giving up on a consultant and just need to find the >>> time to do it myself. >>> >>> It's really not that hard... you know the IPs for your Netflix CDN... it >>> doesn't change. You need a queue that matches to the source of that CDN >>> going to each end user. >>> >>> On 1/23/20 5:04 PM, Darin Steffl wrote: >>> > Matt, >>> > >>> > Caching is something from the 90's unless it's with a direct CDN >>> provider >>> > like Akamai or Netflix. If you're trying to do this yourself without >>> > having an appliance or server farm from a CDN, you're dreaming. This >>> is >>> > why you won't find a Mikrotik consultant that can do the job for you. >>> > >>> > Gone are the days of T1's and HTTP caches so get with the times. >>> Upgrade >>> > your middle mile circuits so this isn't a concern. >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:35 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > you have to log into the netflix account and set it off auto for >>> > each sub account >>> > >>> > ours was 512k max. maybe resolution on a tv would have been >>> > pixelated we did our verifications from PC >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:25 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Interesting. >>> > >>> > On 1/23/2020 4:23 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> > > The cell carriers have caching servers installed so they can >>> > > manipulate the traffic. We are working on doing something >>> > similar... >>> > > but so far every MikroTik consultant I've hired has screwed >>> > me on this. >>> > > >>> > > On 1/23/20 4:21 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>> > >> If I recall correctly, they have lower quality levels for >>> > mobile >>> > >> users on 4G. I wonder how they know you're mobile and >>> > whether you >>> > >> can trick the system into counting your user as mobile. >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On 1/23/2020 4:17 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>> > >>> Yeah, last I looked that's what they said the lowest >>> > quality needed. >>> > >>> A few years back I did some testing with various speeds, >>> > and I think >>> > >>> I got down to somewhere around 500k before Netflix would >>> > break. But >>> > >>> even then, the picture quality was getting pretty ugly. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> But seriously... if Netflix defaulted to lower quality >>> (not >>> > lowest, >>> > >>> but in the middle), and made you set it higher if you >>> > wanted, most >>> > >>> people would never know or care... and it'd save a lot of >>> > bandwidth. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:14 PM Adam Moffett >>> > <dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>> > >>> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I'm pretty sure the lowest quality level on Netflix >>> > needs 0.7 >>> > >>> mbps. If your rule ended up giving them 256k+512k >>> then >>> > it would >>> > >>> have worked. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On 1/23/2020 4:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> > >>>> Way back in the day, when powercode had the old type >>> > queue, we >>> > >>>> built our basic one to buffer at 512 long enough to >>> > maintain a 2 >>> > >>>> hour sd stream at 256k with periodic 512k bucket >>> > refills. so >>> > >>>> really it was 512k effectively. It may very vell be >>> that >>> > >>>> expectations of "standard" definition were different >>> > back then. >>> > >>>> but I thought that was an actual resolution standard >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 2:58 PM Ken Hohhof >>> > <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> I don’t remember ever being able to stream >>> Netflix >>> > on 256K. >>> > >>>> 1M maybe, and 1.5M still gives you decent SD. >>> You’re >>> > going >>> > >>>> to need at least 2.5M though for HD. So that’s >>> > one part of >>> > >>>> the answer is HD. Some streaming services, like >>> > DirecTV On >>> > >>>> Demand, don’t have adaptive video quality and >>> want >>> > a minimum >>> > >>>> of 5M to stream. Another factor is “live” video, >>> > which is >>> > >>>> compressed on-the-fly and probably not as >>> > efficiently as >>> > >>>> pre-recorded content. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Of course, if the customer has more, video >>> streams >>> > will >>> > >>>> happily use it. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com >>> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com >>> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones >>> > >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 23, 2020 2:29 PM >>> > >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> > <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The Future >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> we are at the end of the wireless backhaul road. >>> > when I >>> > >>>> started 15 or so years ago, we were just moving >>> off >>> > a >>> > >>>> handdful of random T1s to a bonded 6mb circuit >>> > backhauling >>> > >>>> that was nothing. Now we have two gig circuits on >>> > separate >>> > >>>> parts of our network, and we are a tiny WISP in >>> > podunk USA.. >>> > >>>> We dont put less than 1.2gbps backhauls in for >>> > core backhauls >>> > >>>> now. The existing technology for distance in a >>> > single unit us >>> > >>>> roughly 2gbps when trying to cover any distance >>> of >>> > merit. >>> > >>>> Sure you can do more than that, you can cheat >>> > outside link >>> > >>>> budgets and ignore your rain region. But if youre >>> > talking >>> > >>>> about most temperate region backhauls with >>> > legitimate >>> > >>>> reliability thats the wall. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> we keep poking a little more bits/hz out, but >>> that >>> > not really >>> > >>>> new tech, its all dependent upon smaller and >>> > smaller path >>> > >>>> budgets, that eventually wont be attainable. so >>> > you have to >>> > >>>> start doing shorter shots, with more radios, more >>> > channel >>> > >>>> size, etc. eventually you hit the point where its >>> > no longer >>> > >>>> economically viable to keep throwing radio and >>> > lease costs at >>> > >>>> it and youll have to put glass in the dirt. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Duct is whats future proof, fiber is just the >>> > current best >>> > >>>> long term option for transport. pending some >>> > breakthrough >>> > >>>> tech, its the only real long term cost effective >>> > future >>> > >>>> proofish option. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> We will hit a wall on demand at some point in the >>> > near term >>> > >>>> as we run out of things to connect. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Can anybody answer why 256k used to be able to >>> > deliver a >>> > >>>> decent SD netflix stream and now i need multiple >>> > mbps for the >>> > >>>> same thing? asking for a friend >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:40 PM Carl Peterson >>> > >>>> <cpeter...@portnetworks.com >>> > <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com >>> > <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> "Elon started it as a project to raise money, >>> > yes. Morgan >>> > >>>> Stanley is up valuing it because they don't >>> > understand >>> > >>>> technology. This project is not even close to >>> > spacex's >>> > >>>> purpose for existing. If it disappeared it >>> > would not have >>> > >>>> any real effect on their overall mission." >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> This isn't really true. There was one >>> primary >>> > driver. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> 1) You need to bring down the cost of launch >>> > considerably >>> > >>>> in order to expand the launch market to a >>> size >>> > where >>> > >>>> developing and maintaining a reusable rocket >>> > fleet makes >>> > >>>> sense but you can't bring down the cost of >>> > launch till >>> > >>>> you have customers to fill the launch >>> > manifest and that >>> > >>>> spool up will take years. SpaceX thinks they >>> > have solved >>> > >>>> this by becoming their own customer for all >>> > their extra >>> > >>>> launch capacity for the foreseeable future. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> When they looked at #1 above they >>> > realized that there was >>> > >>>> a huge potential market there and even a a >>> few >>> > % of the >>> > >>>> global internet market could be a cash cow >>> for >>> > years to >>> > >>>> come. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:13 PM Jason McKemie >>> > >>>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com >>> > <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com >>> > <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Elon started it as a project to raise >>> > money, yes. >>> > >>>> Morgan Stanley is up valuing it because >>> > they don't >>> > >>>> understand technology. This project is >>> not >>> > even close >>> > >>>> to spacex's purpose for existing. If it >>> > disappeared >>> > >>>> it would not have any real effect on >>> their >>> > overall >>> > >>>> mission. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, Robert >>> > >>>> <i...@avantwireless.com >>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com >>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> um, no, Starlink is now becoming the >>> > primary >>> > >>>> reason for the huge run-up in >>> > valuation for >>> > >>>> SpaceX... >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> > >>> https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-future-multibillion-dollar-valuation-starlink-internet-morgan-stanley-2019-9 >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On 1/21/20 4:15 PM, Jason McKemie >>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> The difference being that this is >>> > a side >>> > >>>> project for one of the main >>> > businesses, not >>> > >>>> their primary purpose. At best I >>> > don't think >>> > >>>> this is going to be anything >>> > besides a better >>> > >>>> alternative to other satellite >>> > internet >>> > >>>> options. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, >>> > Darin Steffl >>> > >>>> <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com >>> > <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com >>> > <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Guys, lots of misinformation >>> > here. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> They are NO plans nor hints >>> of >>> > >>>> integrating Starlink antennas >>> > into Tesla >>> > >>>> cars. It may happen but no >>> one >>> > has hinted >>> > >>>> of this happening. All >>> Tesla's >>> > have 3G or >>> > >>>> 4G modems already built-in to >>> > them along >>> > >>>> with WiFi. Updates are sent >>> > via WiFi >>> > >>>> first and after the fleet has >>> > received >>> > >>>> the updates, they eventually >>> > push it to >>> > >>>> cars via cellular data that >>> > haven't >>> > >>>> updated via WiFi. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Regarding B2B backhaul, I >>> > don't believe >>> > >>>> you'll see this as an option >>> > anytime soon >>> > >>>> for WISP's or other ISP's. >>> > They're >>> > >>>> targeting residential and >>> small >>> > >>>> businesses as well as >>> > >>>> government contracts. The >>> cost >>> > if they >>> > >>>> did offer B2B backhaul >>> > services would >>> > >>>> likely be higher than fiber >>> to >>> > your >>> > >>>> network. Please stop thinking >>> > this will >>> > >>>> happen as I bet it will not. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> They may offer a self install >>> > option but >>> > >>>> they'll also have a >>> contractor >>> > to perform >>> > >>>> most installs for a cost is >>> my >>> > guess. >>> > >>>> Maybe they'll send a self >>> > install kit for >>> > >>>> X price and if you can't get >>> > it working, >>> > >>>> they'll schedule a contract >>> > install for >>> > >>>> XX price. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> I'll also say that you should >>> > not doubt >>> > >>>> Elon's passion to achieve >>> > great things. I >>> > >>>> have a Tesla and it's a work >>> > of art and >>> > >>>> by far the best vehicle I've >>> > ever driven. >>> > >>>> 99% of people who have driven >>> > one also >>> > >>>> think this. Tesla is >>> > succeeding, SpaceX >>> > >>>> is on it's way there, The >>> > Boring Company >>> > >>>> is half done with their Vegas >>> > tunnel, and >>> > >>>> Starlink will likely be a >>> viable >>> > >>>> competitor for us. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:48 >>> > PM Ryan Ray >>> > >>>> <ryan...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:ryan...@gmail.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:ryan...@gmail.com <mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>>> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Can you link that? What >>> > exactly were >>> > >>>> they testing? >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at >>> > 2:36 PM >>> > >>>> Robert Andrews >>> > >>>> <i...@avantwireless.com >>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com >>> > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Somehow they passed a >>> > first >>> > >>>> review from US >>> DOD... >>> > Can't be >>> > >>>> all smoke >>> > >>>> and mirrors in >>> space... >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On 01/21/2020 12:18 >>> > PM, Ryan Ray >>> > >>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> > I'm still very wary >>> > of this. >>> > >>>> There seems to be a >>> lot >>> > of >>> > >>>> over-promising >>> > >>>> > under delivering. >>> In >>> > typical >>> > >>>> Elon fashion, no >>> > details but the >>> > >>>> world runs >>> > >>>> > with it and puts >>> out >>> > all these >>> > >>>> data models that make >>> > it seem >>> > >>>> like the >>> > >>>> > second coming of >>> > christ. >>> > >>>> Customer CPE is a >>> > pizza box ufo >>> > >>>> <$200 and they >>> > >>>> > are starting in >>> > 2020, but >>> > >>>> there's no pictures >>> or >>> > details. >>> > >>>> How is that >>> > >>>> > even possible? >>> We're >>> > buying >>> > >>>> 450b at a more >>> > expensive cost and >>> > >>>> there >>> > >>>> > ain't no phased >>> > antenna with >>> > >>>> motors in it. >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > Then all you read >>> > online is the >>> > >>>> cult following of >>> > spaceslax who >>> > >>>> takes a >>> > >>>> > twitter post as >>> > gospel and just >>> > >>>> keeps perpetuating >>> the >>> > same tired >>> > >>>> > information. >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 20, >>> 2020 >>> > at 10:02 >>> > >>>> AM Bill Prince >>> > >>>> <part15...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com >>> >> >>> > >>>> > >>> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>>> wrote: >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > If the SpaceX >>> > Starlink >>> > >>>> system works at 50% >>> of >>> > what it's >>> > >>>> hyped, it will >>> > >>>> > become the >>> > future of rural >>> > >>>> internet. Urban is >>> > still going >>> > >>>> to be >>> > >>>> > dominated >>> > (eventually) by >>> > >>>> fiber for the >>> > foreseeable future. >>> > >>>> Higher >>> > >>>> > speed >>> > >>>> > wireless will >>> be >>> > very, very >>> > >>>> local. >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > bp >>> > >>>> > >>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > On 1/19/2020 >>> > 6:29 PM, Matt >>> > >>>> Hoppes wrote: >>> > >>>> > > I don’t know >>> > why, but >>> > >>>> this evening got me >>> > thinking about >>> > >>>> > broadband >>> > delivery over the >>> > >>>> past 30 years and the >>> > future of >>> > >>>> broadband. >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > First we had >>> > nothing, >>> > >>>> then along came >>> > dial-up and >>> > >>>> that was >>> > >>>> > amazing and >>> many >>> > companies >>> > >>>> sprung up offering >>> the >>> > service. >>> > >>>> Giants >>> > >>>> > like AOL and >>> > Prodigy. >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > Then DSL and >>> > Cable came >>> > >>>> along as well as >>> > wireless and >>> > >>>> dial-up has >>> > >>>> > all but died. >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > Now DSL is >>> > basically >>> > >>>> dead, cable and >>> > wireless have >>> > >>>> gone through >>> > >>>> > several >>> > iterations and we >>> > >>>> are seeing a push to >>> > fiber. >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > What’s the >>> > possibility >>> > >>>> in the next 10 years >>> > cable and >>> > >>>> wireless >>> > >>>> > will be dead >>> > technologies >>> > >>>> with fiber at the >>> fore >>> > front? >>> > >>>> Possibly. >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > But >>> then..... >>> > is fiber >>> > >>>> really future proof? >>> > We are >>> > >>>> talking about >>> > >>>> > investing >>> > hundreds of >>> > >>>> millions into fiber >>> > >>>> infrastructure, >>> because >>> > >>>> > it’s “the >>> > future”. But is >>> > >>>> it? >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> > > So far every >>> > technology >>> > >>>> delivery mechanism to >>> > date has >>> > >>>> become >>> > >>>> > obsolete in as >>> > little as >>> > >>>> 6-10 years. >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > -- >>> > >>>> > AF mailing list >>> > >>>> > AF@af.afmug.com >>> > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>> >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- >>> > >>>> AF mailing list >>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- >>> > >>>> AF mailing list >>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > >>>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- >>> > >>>> Darin Steffl >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Minnesota WiFi >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com> >>> > <http://www.mnwifi.com/> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> 507-634-WiFi >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> >>> > >>>> Like us on Facebook >>> > >>>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- AF mailing list >>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- >>> > >>>> Carl Peterson >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> (410) 637-3707 >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- AF mailing list >>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -- AF mailing list >>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> -- AF mailing list >>> > >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>> >>> > >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > AF mailing list >>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>> > -- >>> > AF mailing list >>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Darin Steffl >>> > Minnesota WiFi >>> > www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/> >>> > 507-634-WiFi >>> > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook >>> > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> ------------------------------ >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Darin Steffl Minnesota WiFi www.mnwifi.com 507-634-WiFi <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
