It typically works very well. I only have an issue... maybe 10 times a year.
It does get worse when interacting through a CRM that munges everything. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> To: af@af.afmug.com Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 9:13:01 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat That's why I disable threading in my email. It never works anyway. On 2/1/2020 11:26 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: Nothing. Someone forked the conversation into a totally new topic instead of creating a new e-mail. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 4:28:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat What does this have to do with CAF-II? For us we pretty much know where the loaded APs are, it’s a matter of smoothing out the experience. On Jan 31, 2020, at 10:18 PM, Simon Westlake < simon@sonar.software > wrote: <blockquote> It's interesting to me how many people are looking at the CoDeL piece of Preseem first - their original vision (and what I still think is the most interesting) is the direct TCP monitoring they do to try to figure out which APs have issues, which customers have issues, and what the root causes of those issues are. The CoDeL piece was just a cherry on top. The CoDeL piece isn't very hard (if you're not worried about scaling it very far) but the monitoring and diagnostic tools they have are, I think, fantastic. I've never heard anyone not rave about them, and I know tons of people using them. On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:06 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: <blockquote> ISP Radio did an interview with them and it’s still on Youtube. 2 years old though. https://www.preseem.com/2018/04/isp-radio-subscriber-queues-latency/ From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of David Coudron Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:41 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat Others probably know better. I think some of the other tools are DPI based where Preseem is FQ-CoDel, but I am not sure that is true of Procera. Others integrate to the CRM systems, so I am not sure that is a differentiator. Might be best to hit Preseem up directly on that question. From our experience, they are not high pressure or exaggerative, so you wouldn’t be opening a can of worms you can’t get the lid back on. But maybe someone has done a more in depth investigation of the two. Sorry, wasn’t much help on the question. Regards, David Coudron From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Jason McKemie Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:48 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat How does Preseem compare to Procera? On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: <blockquote> I second everything David said. We've been on it 2 years now and it's a tool I will never give up. It's worth every penny On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 11:03 AM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > wrote: <blockquote> We have been using Preseem for about a year now. We originally implemented it as a way to better manage the customer experience and potentially make better use of our DIA bandwidth and maybe reduce some DIA costs. I am guessing someone could build a similar product on their own with open source. However, what we have found is that we get significantly more than the customer experience management with the tool. The reporting is beyond awesome, it has become our number one tool for troubleshooting customers complaints. Others on this list can weigh in on how they use it, but our typical day goes something like this: 1) During our morning Ops call, we take a peek at Preseem's recap of tower latency yesterday. If nothing new shows up for Red towers/access points, we look at Yellow Access Points (this is a ranking of Aps/towers over certain latency thresholds) 2) If any customer calls have come in, we use the Preseem tool to see if they are experiencing latency issues. If they are, we check our SNMP based monitoring tool to see if their wireless connection to the tower has changed or if the AP is experience issues. We had a pretty major windstorm go through two weeks ago, and we found a few customers whose latency spiked and investigation into their connection showed there was an issue with their dish. 3) If latency has climbed, but the AP and upstream devices are all OK, we check into the experience of that customer to others on their tower. Is their latency spike unique, does it happen only under load, etc. More often than not, the issue is specific to them, doesn't only happen under load, and only at certain times. It is usually from streaming a show on the TV in the far back upstairs bedroom (or something like that) with a crappy connection to their wifi router in the house. We have found it to be an indispensable tool for this kind of thing. We bought it for QoE, but use it daily for monitoring/troubleshooting activities. Not only do you get a hosted reporting solution, you have access to some pretty smart folks. Just this morning our first line of support person said "If Preseem ever goes down, I will cry, it is my favorite troubleshooting tool". We were having a discussion about how you could compare QoE/Latency from a customer to other customers on the same AP, to others on the Same Tower, to others in the same DIA, etc. It is hard to explain how much it changes the way you think about the "My Internet is slow" complaint. Quite often this person will get a call about it being slow last night, and she will ask the time at which it happened and pull up very detailed information like "You were using 45 of you 50 Mbps plan with 50 ms latency". Take the time to go through the demo with Gerrit. You may not decide it is not for you, but it won't be a waste of time to understand why they are pushing it so hard. David Coudron david.coud...@advantenon.com | Mobile: 612-991-7474 Advantenon, Inc. i...@advantenon.com | 3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447 | www.advantenon.com | Phone: 800-704-4720 | Local: 612-454-1545 -----Original Message----- From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:41 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bufferbloat I think they have integration with common CRM's like Sonar. You sound exactly like I sounded 15 years ago. The more stuff I have to deal with every day, the more I'm ok with outsourcing some of my troubles to someone else. I just paid a guy $800 to replace an exhaust inducer in my furnace. I know that inducer is $99 and goes in with 4 screws and a hose clamp, but it's more worth my time to let someone else take care of it so I can do something else. Same goes for Preseem vs the $300 Linux box. I'm not knocking your method. There's a point in the business cycle where there's more time than there is cash, and it will make sense to do some more DIY things. I'm just saying the Preseem thing has value too. -Adam On 1/31/2020 11:34 AM, Dev wrote: > I’m getting spammed like every day with the Preseem guys selling what seem > like expensive hacks of fq_codel to reduce bufferbloat. Is there anything > else interesting about their technology besides deploying open source > implementation of fq_codel or CAKE on commodity hardware, which we already do > to great effect on a $300 single board Linux box with a few ports? I guess > they have a pretty dashboard, anyhing other than that? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- Simon Westlake | CEO PGP Key: https://flowcrypt.com/pub/simon@sonar.software </blockquote> <blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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