I don't know what you guys are smoking :) but SLA/VRLA batteries are $200+ kh/w unless we are talking walmart boat batteries which are ~$100kw/h, I just posted two sites with li-ion batteries with many options for 70-100$ per kw/h ??
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > I think you nailed it. And until commercial Li batteries reduce price by > 1/2 or more they aren't competitive except in special use cases. (RV and > such)... with 1/2 price drop and 2x the performance it's effectively a 4x > difference in requirements and then they equal the utility of wet deep > cycle. They really need to be less than 1/2 the price to be a no-brainer... > > On 2/14/20 8:03 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: > > As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really matters is > $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally doesn't even > matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages from > lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell > phone or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're > talking about doing. > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> I only care about $/kWH >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >> >> >> Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density, the Leaf >> packs are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be modularly >> packed, you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available to >> make them into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned >> out, basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are >> sub $100/kwh >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >> >>> all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are _used_ or >>> new old stock, nothing new. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>> >>>> you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the models to >>>> discharge to the specs they provide or money back >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling _used_ >>>>> batteries. For example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a used >>>>> unit per Will Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. What >>>>> the cycle life of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown.. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hoboy does she have some nice batteries... >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Brian Webster >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM >>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Same here…… >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brian Webster >>>>> >>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm afraid to click on that link... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Also bigbattery.com is another good source >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> some guy named ron is coming over to charge my batteries now >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster < >>>>> i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> To make sure you get the proper connectors, why else? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brian Webster >>>>> >>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck >>>>> McCown >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder why they want to know my gender? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy them all guys. They say >>>>> Daly BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low temp and low voltage >>>>> disconnect. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS are you using? >>>>> >>>>> Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be logistics and >>>>> fulfillment if you want. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* TJ Trout >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery (lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) >>>>> are available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than $100 a kilowatt hour most >>>>> of them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity mostly removed from >>>>> electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage for our equipment >>>>> you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide low >>>>> temperature and low voltage protection. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah they break the bank. 2) >>>>> low voltage compared to other chemistries, which means _more_ cost 3) >>>>> poor >>>>> efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts out. All of >>>>> this is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set of tubes >>>>> on them... >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>> these they say are good for subzero charging, thats what appeals to me >>>>> and that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F ( depending upon >>>>> chemistry and if you attempt to charge them below freezing. Failure >>>>> can >>>>> result from trying to charge below freezing. Between those extremes >>>>> they do pretty well. The below freezing is a deal breaker for outside >>>>> solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn + others ) that are >>>>> coming >>>>> out with heaters to get around that. >>>>> >>>>> On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>>>> > I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up compared to flooded cells in >>>>> a >>>>> > non-environmentally controlled area. I suspect it's worse. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>> > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > In my 42+ years of dealing with stationary flooded cells is that >>>>> you >>>>> > can >>>>> > easily get 20+ years from them if they are properly maintained >>>>> and >>>>> > kept in >>>>> > an environmentally controlled area. >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Bill Prince >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM >>>>> > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> > >>>>> > I think you would expect at least 2-3 times the life with lithium >>>>> > (almost all the various chemistries currently in vogue). You can >>>>> also >>>>> > increase discharge tolerance to 80-90 percent instead of the >>>>> usual >>>>> > lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts). >>>>> > >>>>> > I think the cost is still a bit over the top. Maybe another year >>>>> or two >>>>> > depending. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > bp >>>>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>> > >>>>> > On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>>>> > > Life also matters. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Half the cost but has to be replaced in half the time would >>>>> not >>>>> > be a good >>>>> > > deal. With my luck, if batteries die after 3 years, I'll >>>>> have a >>>>> > big power >>>>> > > outage every 37 months. And it's not just a cost >>>>> calculation. >>>>> > Lugging >>>>> > > half >>>>> > > a ton of new batteries out to a tower and then hauling the old >>>>> > ones back >>>>> > > for >>>>> > > recycling sucks. So if someone has battery technology that >>>>> lasts >>>>> > 10 or 20 >>>>> > > years, that's worth a bunch. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com >>>>> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>> > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:36 PM >>>>> > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Charging time doesn't interest me much in a grid backup >>>>> > situation. The >>>>> > > cost >>>>> > > of the battery per watt hour is normally my only >>>>> consideration for a >>>>> > > backup >>>>> > > battery. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > > From: Robert Andrews >>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:25 PM >>>>> > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is any charger that is >>>>> programmable >>>>> > > will work. And the faster you can charge them the better. >>>>> You >>>>> > think >>>>> > > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a big charger the lithium >>>>> > banks can >>>>> > > charge at 100amps and 1 hour. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto: >>>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not competitive with >>>>> flooded cells. >>>>> > >> And what kind of special charger would you have to have? >>>>> > >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF >>>>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:36 PM >>>>> > >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz >>>>> > >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Anyone successfully built a telecom UPS solution using rack >>>>> mount >>>>> > >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china? >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> There seems to be endless arrays of rack mount solutions >>>>> there: >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat >>>>> > >> >>>>> tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Prices run about 25% the cost of locally sourced LiFePO4 >>>>> solutions. >>>>> > >> The selection is crazy however, and who knows what the >>>>> gotchas are. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> *Peter Kranz >>>>> > >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.UnwiredLtd.com> >>>>> > <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> >>>>> > >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >>>>> > >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >>>>> > >> pkr...@unwiredltd.com <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> > >> -- >>>>> > >> -- >>>>> > >> AF mailing list >>>>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > > -- >>>>> > > AF mailing list >>>>> > > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > AF mailing list >>>>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > AF mailing list >>>>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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