Right, I suspect one can get pre-owned lead-acid quite a bit cheaper. On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:40 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We're also comparing new lead-acid to pre-owned li-ion. > > > On 2/14/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > I repost the list. > > You can get a front post telecom batt for 16 cents per watt hour. But > yeah, 20 cents is more like it. > If solar flooded cells are OK, those can be had in the 7 cent range. > > *From:* TJ Trout > *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2020 11:20 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > I don't know what you guys are smoking :) but SLA/VRLA batteries are $200+ > kh/w unless we are talking walmart boat batteries which are ~$100kw/h, I > just posted two sites with li-ion batteries with many options for 70-100$ > per kw/h ?? > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > >> I think you nailed it. And until commercial Li batteries reduce price >> by 1/2 or more they aren't competitive except in special use cases. (RV and >> such)... with 1/2 price drop and 2x the performance it's effectively a 4x >> difference in requirements and then they equal the utility of wet deep >> cycle. They really need to be less than 1/2 the price to be a no-brainer... >> >> On 2/14/20 8:03 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: >> >> As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really matters is >> $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally doesn't even >> matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages from >> lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell >> phone or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're >> talking about doing. >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> I only care about $/kWH >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density, the Leaf >>> packs are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be modularly >>> packed, you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available to >>> make them into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned >>> out, basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are >>> sub $100/kwh >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>> >>>> all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are _used_ >>>> or new old stock, nothing new. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the models to >>>>> discharge to the specs they provide or money back >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling _used_ >>>>>> batteries. For example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a used >>>>>> unit per Will Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. >>>>>> What >>>>>> the cycle life of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown.. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hoboy does she have some nice batteries... >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Brian Webster >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM >>>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Same here…… >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian Webster >>>>>> >>>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew >>>>>> Howard >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm afraid to click on that link... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Also bigbattery.com is another good source >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> some guy named ron is coming over to charge my batteries now >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster < >>>>>> i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> To make sure you get the proper connectors, why else? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian Webster >>>>>> >>>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck >>>>>> McCown >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder why they want to know my gender? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy them all guys. They >>>>>> say Daly BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low temp and low >>>>>> voltage disconnect. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS are you using? >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be logistics and >>>>>> fulfillment if you want. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* TJ Trout >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery (lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) >>>>>> are available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than $100 a kilowatt hour >>>>>> most >>>>>> of them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity mostly removed from >>>>>> electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage for our >>>>>> equipment >>>>>> you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide low >>>>>> temperature and low voltage protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah they break the bank. 2) >>>>>> low voltage compared to other chemistries, which means _more_ cost 3) >>>>>> poor >>>>>> efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts out. All of >>>>>> this is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set of >>>>>> tubes >>>>>> on them... >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> these they say are good for subzero charging, thats what appeals to >>>>>> me and that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews < >>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F ( depending upon >>>>>> chemistry and if you attempt to charge them below freezing. Failure >>>>>> can >>>>>> result from trying to charge below freezing. Between those extremes >>>>>> they do pretty well. The below freezing is a deal breaker for >>>>>> outside >>>>>> solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn + others ) that are >>>>>> coming >>>>>> out with heaters to get around that. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>>>>> > I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up compared to flooded cells >>>>>> in a >>>>>> > non-environmentally controlled area. I suspect it's worse. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>>> > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In my 42+ years of dealing with stationary flooded cells is >>>>>> that you >>>>>> > can >>>>>> > easily get 20+ years from them if they are properly maintained >>>>>> and >>>>>> > kept in >>>>>> > an environmentally controlled area. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: Bill Prince >>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM >>>>>> > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I think you would expect at least 2-3 times the life with >>>>>> lithium >>>>>> > (almost all the various chemistries currently in vogue). You >>>>>> can also >>>>>> > increase discharge tolerance to 80-90 percent instead of the >>>>>> usual >>>>>> > lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts). >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I think the cost is still a bit over the top. Maybe another >>>>>> year or two >>>>>> > depending. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > bp >>>>>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>>>>> > > Life also matters. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Half the cost but has to be replaced in half the time would >>>>>> not >>>>>> > be a good >>>>>> > > deal. With my luck, if batteries die after 3 years, I'll >>>>>> have a >>>>>> > big power >>>>>> > > outage every 37 months. And it's not just a cost >>>>>> calculation. >>>>>> > Lugging >>>>>> > > half >>>>>> > > a ton of new batteries out to a tower and then hauling the >>>>>> old >>>>>> > ones back >>>>>> > > for >>>>>> > > recycling sucks. So if someone has battery technology that >>>>>> lasts >>>>>> > 10 or 20 >>>>>> > > years, that's worth a bunch. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com >>>>>> > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>>> > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:36 PM >>>>>> > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Charging time doesn't interest me much in a grid backup >>>>>> > situation. The >>>>>> > > cost >>>>>> > > of the battery per watt hour is normally my only >>>>>> consideration for a >>>>>> > > backup >>>>>> > > battery. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > > From: Robert Andrews >>>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:25 PM >>>>>> > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is any charger that is >>>>>> programmable >>>>>> > > will work. And the faster you can charge them the >>>>>> better. You >>>>>> > think >>>>>> > > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a big charger the lithium >>>>>> > banks can >>>>>> > > charge at 100amps and 1 hour. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto: >>>>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not competitive with >>>>>> flooded cells. >>>>>> > >> And what kind of special charger would you have to have? >>>>>> > >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF >>>>>> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:36 PM >>>>>> > >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz >>>>>> > >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> Anyone successfully built a telecom UPS solution using rack >>>>>> mount >>>>>> > >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china? >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> There seems to be endless arrays of rack mount solutions >>>>>> there: >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> Prices run about 25% the cost of locally sourced LiFePO4 >>>>>> solutions. >>>>>> > >> The selection is crazy however, and who knows what the >>>>>> gotchas are. >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> *Peter Kranz >>>>>> > >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.UnwiredLtd.com> >>>>>> > <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> >>>>>> > >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 >>>>>> > >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 >>>>>> > >> pkr...@unwiredltd.com <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> > >> -- >>>>>> > >> -- >>>>>> > >> AF mailing list >>>>>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > > -- >>>>>> > > AF mailing list >>>>>> > > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > AF mailing list >>>>>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > AF mailing list >>>>>> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
