Louisiana surprised me. Not many things do they excel in. Propositional
ending intentional...
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Utah is up there, but not in the lead. Rhode Island is #1 in testing,
> followed (in order) by New York, Massachusetts, Louisiana, then Utah.
>
>
>
> <ognofdgmnbglmckj.png>
>
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 4/26/2020 9:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> Why is utah so for ahead on the testing? Is it something to do with
>> Mormonism and the teamwork thing or unrelated?
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 11:16 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>> Because 100% of deaths in Utah are tested for Coronavirus...
>>>
>>> From: Robert
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 10:07 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>
>>> There was just an interesting article written that lamented how inaccurate
>>> coroners have been on cause of death for the whole existence of coroners...
>>> Like 50% accurate. Why would they get better now?
>>>
>>> On 4/26/20 8:23 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>> There is so much we don't know for a number of frustrating reasons. One is
>>>> the asymptomatic infection problem, and how long that lasts. The other is
>>>> that the symptoms are "similar" to the flu, and sometimes other things.
>>>> One headline that caught my attention this morning is that Santa Clara
>>>> County had 29 people listed as "dying of flu-like symptoms", and 9
>>>> (roughly 1/3) have been reclassified as COVID-19 after they tested for the
>>>> virus.
>>>>
>>>> I snipped this from the article, and it pretty well sums up the situation
>>>> at present:
>>>>
>>>> “We’ll never, ever know how many people contracted the coronavirus in San
>>>> Clara County or California or the U.S. That ship has sailed. Even
>>>> self-reporting would be inherently inaccurate or impossible,” Santa Clara
>>>> County Supervisor Dave Cortese said. “Our only hope of getting a decent
>>>> history of it is by counting the dead. I’m really disappointed that
>>>> coroners all over the country haven’t done a better job. They’ve been
>>>> signing death certificates as strokes or heart attacks or natural causes.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/26/2020 8:12 AM, Robert wrote:
>>>>> Does it bug anyone else that this "doctor" says that we aren't treating
>>>>> this like other epidemics and quarantining the sick, when Covid-19 IS NOT
>>>>> LIKE OTHER epidemics. It has a 2-10 day period of being contagious
>>>>> _without_ symptoms.
>>>>> I was agreeing with him up until that point.
>>>>> Then he goes into the NY numbers and he does the same extrapolation
>>>>> of the testing vs sick numbers that many have done before ( including
>>>>> myself ) which is BAD Science. It's not a good test case to extrapolate
>>>>> to the gen pop from, because the testing has not been randomly done
>>>>> across gen pop! The people who get tested typically are those who
>>>>> exhibit symptoms. This may under guess the number who have gotten it OR
>>>>> over guess, but it's still NOT science.
>>>>> He also neglects the effect of the quarantine actions on the results
>>>>> of the number of cases in his region. Gee wilikers I want to hear the
>>>>> same information done from actual scientific method testing. Then he
>>>>> says "hundreds of thousands of deaths which were inaccurate"... Um we
>>>>> are over 54K deaths and the curve ISN'T going down. It seems to have
>>>>> leveled off but is still going strong. In basically 1.5 months. We are
>>>>> 1/4+ the way to the model with social distancing. Without social
>>>>> distancing we could start making a gain on the other models. I
>>>>> think this is yet another example of someone, this time a doctor, who
>>>>> looks at the results of successful social distancing and says it's
>>>>> overreaction. And then he talks about 0.1% of death and then 92%
>>>>> recovery. Um doesn't that sound like 8% who DON'T recover? And if you
>>>>> throw 8% at the hospitals of the population in a much shorter time from
>>>>> not social distancing, what happens to the hospitals? Sorry but this
>>>>> is an "agenda" again...
>>>>>
>>>>> IT'S NOT LIKE THE FLU!
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/26/20 7:34 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2Z1n4E0sxMyXc82UZxrXNKJqf9oaC_kF53Be6NZaVPnuP8jwTDKxk5w4g
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 8:13 AM
>>>>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve, the usual solution is for nervous dwelling beings to engage in
>>>>>> “spring cleaning”, to the annoyance of all other dwelling beings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/breaking-cat-news/2020/04/26
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:27 AM
>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just reread that and am going to have to call a lent. Sorry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 12:19 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's another thing that really needs kicked to the curb, political
>>>>>> correctness. This is serious business, and housewives get nervous. A
>>>>>> nervous housewife can make a whole lot of bad decisions. Those bad
>>>>>> decisions have real world consequenses that dont care about being
>>>>>> politically correct. You can say house person if you want. Well maybe
>>>>>> being, since son is in person, indicating Male, if a gender actually
>>>>>> exists. And I guess house indicates some level of financial status.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you feel better about "dwelling being".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Keeping dwelling beings occupied and less nervous" does that make you
>>>>>> feel better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fyi, that's specifically the reason I have my wife, who is suffering
>>>>>> severe post partum depression in the middle of the end of the world,
>>>>>> looking for templates on making masks, so i dont come home to the real
>>>>>> world consequense of my babies drown in the bathtub. I'm not quite sure
>>>>>> if her doing that would be PC or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 11:56 PM Bruce Robertson <br...@pooh.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “keeping housewives occupied and less nervous”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? You’re aware this is 2020, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 8:18 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You asked
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What was recomended by the White House. Regional opening with result
>>>>>> driven response. (Without rhetoric, example, my county TRIPLED its cases
>>>>>> over the weekend. It went from 1 to 3, the 2 new ones are related, so
>>>>>> the increase is pretty irrelevant.) Tracing is more important than
>>>>>> testing. That's just a matter of fact, testing is a slice in time, you
>>>>>> can be infected, and test negative if you were recently infected, you
>>>>>> can get infected at a test site. You can test positive from an
>>>>>> environmental exposure without having actually caught it. It's like MRSA
>>>>>> of the nairs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once identified, the tracing leads back to likely hotspots. I'd
>>>>>> personally put the bulk of the funding into tracing. Use every bit of
>>>>>> data volunteered. Particularly request the tracking data from mobile
>>>>>> devices. If its volunteered, you have a map. If they dont, well, you
>>>>>> work with what you have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Testing" is a tool of politics. The only way to effectively test would
>>>>>> be real time monitoring. Which A. Doesnt exist and B. Wouldn't be
>>>>>> feasible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The governors each now have in their possession the location of every
>>>>>> single test processing facility in the nation. So what little relevance
>>>>>> testing actually plays in management is their responsibility to delegate
>>>>>> coordination. So it's a moot issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any location exposed in tracing gets a mandatory scrub scrub (to be
>>>>>> honest, I dont understand any public venue that wouldn't be surface
>>>>>> decontaminating once ever 24 hours minimum anyway, there's no shortage
>>>>>> of killitol level disinfectants)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the mandatory face covering is nonsense. If it were mandatory
>>>>>> rated filtration masks that would be different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there isnt a production capacity for that on the entire planet. But
>>>>>> since it makes people feel like they're doing something, I'm all for it.
>>>>>> Placebo is actually a powerful medication for much of what ails society.
>>>>>> Plus the homemade masks are keeping housewives occupied and less
>>>>>> nervous. That actually matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Occasionally a tracing may require a mandatory compensated closure.
>>>>>> Example being a county here in illinois that has a processor who has
>>>>>> over 20 employees infected, they're still operational. There is autonomy
>>>>>> and constitutional rights, and then there is stupidity and a true public
>>>>>> health risk. That falls under the latter and should be closed pending
>>>>>> decontamination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A forcible closure, from a document able and legitimate public health
>>>>>> risk should require medical screening of all staff/administration prior
>>>>>> to resuming activities. There is no shortage of available healthcare
>>>>>> practitioners right now, so depts of public health can contract that .
>>>>>> Once again, the focus should be on tracing. Heavily funded tracing.
>>>>>> "Patient zero" in the above mentioned case has probably long since
>>>>>> recovered. Tracing is where they are identified, as theyll test negative
>>>>>> now. Cases like this are where antibody testing should be prioritized,
>>>>>> assuming there is consent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tracing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The same applies to public venues. If tracing identifies probable
>>>>>> contamination, the venue scrubs. Applicable staff are cleared, tracing,
>>>>>> tracing tracing. Video surveillance has a huge role where it is
>>>>>> voluntarily submitted. Voluntarily being key and subjective, since it
>>>>>> will be a whole lot quicker to clear a location of all tracing
>>>>>> resources are made readily available. Call it extortion if you want, it
>>>>>> is what it is, and it is a tool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Metrics must be clearly defined. If two people happenned to have been in
>>>>>> the same place, it doesnt need to necessarily be shut down. But the
>>>>>> threshold must be clearly defined. We have very little that is clearly
>>>>>> defined. That has a whole lot to do with the defiance. Selling seeds
>>>>>> being a prime example, at no point did illinois shut that down, yet
>>>>>> places cordoned them off and facebook images went nuts. This is
>>>>>> literally the same thing that cause the rapid spread in the US, images
>>>>>> of empty shelves. Many of the people protesting still dont know that
>>>>>> nurseries and greenhouses were specifically deemed essential last week,
>>>>>> but that's why they're there. Clearly define everything, on the state
>>>>>> and county websites. Accurate information is critical. That and tracing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Define regional thresholds for stages of opening. If a region declines,
>>>>>> shut it down. If a region does well, progress the stages. Exactly as the
>>>>>> feds recommend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Define and justify every single essential and non essential industry.
>>>>>> With a mandatory state clarification within 24 hours of a designation
>>>>>> request. Justify being key. And publicly accessible designations. This
>>>>>> would be fluid and ongoing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leisure activities need designations. Nuclear family needs
>>>>>> clarification. As it reads, I cant take my family fishing in illinois
>>>>>> because the designated limit is 2. This will get police in situations
>>>>>> with bad outcomes because nobody bothered to clarify.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If a region's medical resources are verifiably and documented to be
>>>>>> taxed to a predefined and clearly defined level, then ease back on the
>>>>>> stages, all the way to lockdown if need be. But media reports and public
>>>>>> opinion arent the metrics. The staffing levels and documented patient
>>>>>> loads define that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can continue
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:01 PM Chuck Macenski <ch...@macenski.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you please articulate specifically "what is right" in this
>>>>>> situation? I am asking for your non-political opinion of the most
>>>>>> constructive way forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:24 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sit back and watch as people contradict their own statements. "Its
>>>>>> going to be here like this for years" "tests are growing, as is the
>>>>>> number" "it's been here longer than we think" "it hasn't peaked because
>>>>>> muh testing" "it's going to be worse in fall" "mitigation has had a
>>>>>> major impact"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best is regarding the medication mien fuehrer liked. "Its only
>>>>>> anecdotal" "a tiny group had a negative outcome, thisnis the gold
>>>>>> standard and this drug must be banned"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I live in a state where our governor is in a pissing contest with the
>>>>>> White House, but doing pretty much what the White House recommends, with
>>>>>> the exception of looking at things by region. We only have two regions,
>>>>>> chicago, and people who voted for the current president at 1600. So the
>>>>>> whole of downstate will be punished for not voting the right way. When
>>>>>> asked about the data, for the "science" behind this, we were told the
>>>>>> state doesnt own the data, so we cant see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm part of a foster parent group. One of the fosters is utterly
>>>>>> destroyed right now. Her prior ward, that she stayed in contact with
>>>>>> died 3 days ago at 15. He had returned home, but went back into the
>>>>>> system during this (our state, in its infinite wisdom has effectively
>>>>>> shut down the foster support system, non essential and all) he couldn't
>>>>>> come back to her because she is at capacity. He had cancer and was in a
>>>>>> drug trial. He had been thriving. The governors orders didnt allow for
>>>>>> him to get access to the trial resources, so he lost his trial spot, as
>>>>>> is the nature of trials. There were no resources available to get him
>>>>>> into a linear treatment. 3 days ago he succumbed to the complication.
>>>>>> While anecdotal, this is exactly what the cure being worse than the
>>>>>> disease looks like. Granted, the speed at which he declined from
>>>>>> thriving to dead indicates underlying issues, the chicago emperors
>>>>>> orders made certain there were no resources. Right now, thanks to the
>>>>>> emperors orders, there are approximately zero resources available to the
>>>>>> foster families. Anticipate a whole lot of negative outcomes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Point is, everybody is more concerned about proving how wrong their
>>>>>> political enemy is, that nobody is even actually looking for what is
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thankfully mother nature doesnt care and this will, like all ailments of
>>>>>> proximity, diminish in the next week or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:48 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just listened (in part) to a discussion about COVID-19 as it regards
>>>>>> China/US relations. It is a discussion between Dubner, Michèle Flournoy
>>>>>> ( former undersecretary of defense and co-founder of strategic-advisory
>>>>>> firm WestExec.), and Michael Auslin (historian at Stanford University’s
>>>>>> Hoover Institution).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Within the discussion Auslin asserts that the death toll within Wuhan
>>>>>> alone was between 45 and 47 thousand; at least 10X what they have
>>>>>> reported through official channels. He gets his data through
>>>>>> croudsourcing crematoria activity and the number of people picking up
>>>>>> urns of deceased family members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't have time to listen to this, it is at least worth a read of
>>>>>> the transcript.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://freakonomics.com/podcast/covid-19-china/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 3:11 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This virus doesn't care if you are a Republican, a Democrat, an
>>>>>> Independent, agnostic, religious or an atheist...if it gets you it might
>>>>>> kill you...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay smart, listen to doctors and scientists....not ineptus maximus
>>>>>> politicians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 12:45 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As we test more, we are undoubtedly going to find more cases that were
>>>>>> previously going undetected (asymptomatic infection). This is a long way
>>>>>> from over. The other thing we have not come to grips with is the uneven
>>>>>> spread/mitigation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There was an interesting graphic for the state of California showing the
>>>>>> state as a whole versus just the Bay Area (Mercury News this morning).
>>>>>> The 7 counties around the bay instituted shelter in place very early,
>>>>>> and it's beginning to show in the statistics. The Bay Area accounts for
>>>>>> almost 18% of the entire state population (7 of the 40 million).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/25/2020 8:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might be Chebyshev BPF though... hopefully...Bessell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hopefully not high pass...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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