The latter brand is likely Rinnai or Rheem. I'm surprised that you saw issues with Takagi, I thought that they were a higher quality brand.
On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > I am generally the first one up. I turn on the shower then the hot water > tap to brush my teeth. By the time my teeth are done the water temp has > stabilized. I have a 200Kbtu heater (actually 2 of them for two parts of > the house). I never seem to notice much of a temp difference when you are > in the shower and someone starts something else. You can hear the heater > instantly rev up when more flow is detected. Takagi were crap. Rhinni > have lasted much longer. Not sure I spelled those correctly. > > *From:* Nate Burke > *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:43 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters > > I have a tankless for 10 years now and love it. I would replace a tank > heater with a tankless any time. We have semi-hard water. City water, > combination of river/well. Wife would like a watersoftener, I think it's > fine. > > For our 2 person household, it's been perfect. Once you are in the > shower, you never have to adjust the temperature no matter how long you > stay in. When my sister came to visit, she commented 'How do you know when > to get out? The water never gets cold" > > However, Caveats they don't tell you about when using a tankless (At least > my 10 year old model). > > It won't get as hot as a tank heater. On ours, you set the output > temperature, recommended is 120 degrees, it will adjust the flow to get you > to that temp. It can fill a tub, or the washing machine without a > problem. but you notice a flow decrease when you try to do both at once. > If you want to sanitize with only water temperature, tankless is not the > way to go. > > It really does not like On/Off operation. If you are the kind of person > who rinses their dishes with 1 or 2 second bursts from the faucet, it will > never get hot. Our dishwasher fills like that, so it always send the > waterheater into a burner ignition failure (that it recovers from as soon > as sustained water is drawn) The dishwasher has it's own internal heater > that raises the water temp, so that's not a problem. > > If your spouse turns off the shower, and you jump right in, You will have > about 5 seconds of ice cold water at some point during your shower. The > water that didn't get heated yet as it went through the heater as it was > firing up the burner. > > Someone running cold water in the house has no affect on temperature, > someone running hotwater will dramatically change your temp, as suddenly > the hot flow is decreased until the heater burner ramps up to increase the > output again. Same when the other hot flow is turned off, you will get > really hot. > > I de-scale my heater every 6 months. They didn't tell me to do it when I > got it, and it stopped working after a year. I use 5 gallons of vinegar > and a 1/6hp pump in a 5 gallon bucket. The heater has built in bypass > valves that make it super simple to hook up. Just let the pump run the > vinegar through for an hour (there are manufactures directions on how to do > it) > > > > On 11/29/2020 10:47 AM, Colin Stanners wrote: > > FYI, quick pricing example for the above > 2x Eccotemp 45HI-NG ( I can't find the -NG on Amazon easily but just for > reference here's the very similar but not compatible -LP version > https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-45HI-LP-Indoor-Propane-Tankless/dp/B00K2XLJIW/ > ) $530 USD each > 2x Descaling/service valve kits (not the Eccotemp model but these seem to > be compatible) > https://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Master-Isolator-Tankless-Pressure/dp/B07KVCFT2K/ > $60 USD each > 2x 4inch class III stainless steel vertical vent kits, with additional > piping as needed - depends greatly on your house but I'm assuming $1000 > total > 1x device interconnect cable - I thought that these models were able to be > ganged, can't find the serial cable to do so but I assume it'd be <$50. > 1x descaling kit > https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EZ-Flush-System-Descaler-Cleaning/dp/B01MY7AJ9D > $150 > > By far the biggest cost would be the labour to replace the old chimney / > galvanized B vent with the new class III stainless steel piping x2. > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters >> quite a bit for a project. >> >> For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may >> want to look into putting one of these into your hot water path. >> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/ I wouldn't put it in the general >> cold water path - while polyphosphates are safe for consumption from what I >> can see, and I'd trust 3M to vet them well, I try to not add much to >> drinking water, and cold water is usually mostly what is used for drinking. >> Maybe check your plumbing if it's possible to add that device to the cold >> water path for everywhere except the kitchen sink, where drinking water is >> usually taken. The $80 USD price is almost "too good to be true" compared >> to a water softener but the reviews suggest that it works well without >> downsides. The cartridges are $50 each and supposedly last 6 months. >> >> If the chimney leaks it could be a simple fix to the rain cap or >> flashing, did you inspect it? WISP experience is at least useful for >> judging if it's sealed well to the roof or if the structure of the rain cap >> is good in strong wind. >> >> I would recommend doing lots of math before assuming a solar system can >> run an electric water heater for a busy family - it takes a ton of >> electricity to create heat, which is why tank electric heaters take 2x-3x >> as much time to recover from a cold tank as gas heaters. I don't think >> you'd want family members to wait 1-2 hours for a hot shower after someone >> else used all the water. As a reference, the bigger tankless heaters use a >> reasonable amount of gas (~150-200K BTU) but they take an inordinate, >> almost frightening, amount of electricity, ~36kW. >> >> Tankless math starts with available GPM (from temperature rise chart). >> IIRC you're in Illinois, where groundwater temp averages 47 deg F (8 deg C >> in the developed countries). Assuming that you want 120 deg water output >> from the tankless heater, that's 73 deg F temp rise. That's on the higher >> end for a tankless heater. If we look at the Eccotemp 45HI-NG natural gas >> tankless water heater, their biggest model at ~140K BTU, the chart says >> that at that temp rise it can do 2GPM, so one low-flow shower. If you want >> to run a high-flow shower and a sink, or 2 showers at the same time, you'd >> need to buy 2 units and the serial cable between them that allows them to >> run intelligently in parallel (reducing the "not activating at low water >> flow" problem by having just one of them, not both, operate in low flow >> conditions). >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> You guys all do different weird shit. Went to drain my gas heater tonite >>> (may have put that maintenance off longer than intended) >>> We are quarry country so we have super hard water. Needless to say tanks >>> full of baked in sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have cracked >>> the liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the burner, and my >>> pop off is dripping, probably some sediment. >>> >>> The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my >>> chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a >>> dumbwaiter in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have a >>> blast riding that. >>> >>> Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost. >>> >>> Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious >>> if any of you guys run them without major water softener and filters. >>> >>> I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so >>> electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater after the one I'm >>> gonna have to put in now. >>> >>> I like gas water heaters because I know how to fix them, parts are >>> cheap, same with my clothes dryers. But theyve priced themselves into me >>> looking at my options. >>> >>> Tankless I dont know how to calculate gpm needs. But what led to this >>> was taking the flow reducer out of my low flow shower head and running out >>> of hot water in 20 minutes. I start my day by scalding myself for about a >>> half hour cause I'm a filthy bastard and need to be cleansed of my sins. >>> We have 2 bathrooms and a girl hitting her teens, so I assume we may be >>> getting into a shower and bath coming on at the same time and the wife >>> knowing what's good for her and washing dishes. >>> She wont let me put a wood stove and still in the bathroom, so wood >>> fired shower options are out. >>> Are residential boilers a thing? All my walls had pocket doors so I have >>> plenty of room for radiant walls, I dont know if boiler heat it even >>> efficient though. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> > > > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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