“theres law and then theres what guys do.”

 

I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how the 
policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, and how it 
can change at each step along the way.  I heard the same speech every time I 
brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I can summarize his long 
winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with it.”

 

That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical sense. 
 

 

The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness was Mike 
Holmes when he was on TV.  The speed limit is 55mph unless everybody else is 
going 65mph.  And I suppose how much you pothole for buried pipes becomes 
irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

 

theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side of the 
outside of the mark.

 

Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt pothole 
is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is hit. if my pipe is 
40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want it reading at 40 
inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody from start to finish 
should always do their jobs accurately, but operate under the assumption that 
the guy before and the guy after did not and will not

 

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line.  I tell my guys that if 
they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” protected zone 
then we are good to go.  But technically the Utah law says you have to have 
“visual contact” with the thing you are crossing.  

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

 

the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his locator 
and not pothole. 

 

by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe you want 
to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded

 

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 inches 
horizontally. 

 

>The bug concern is vertical

 

That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch pipe, 
that's a 3 inch variance.

 

>If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product

 

Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe?

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no tolerance 
on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on.  The bug concern is 
vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is coiled up to 24, some 
yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. Nobody gives a shit about 
liability when their utility is blasted, they want their utility back on. A 
sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont get spliced. We are supposed to 
pothole to the side of the mark to avoid hitting the utility top on.  

If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product

 

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern?  I would think 
~3 inches of variance is within the spec of the locator.

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

stand over them when theyre putting it in to make sure they dont just randomly 
toss it in the open trench. you dont want it toning out at a different 
depth/horizontal because it coiled up. especially if theyre doing a wide trench 
excavation.

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

All these seem to be UF

https://www.plumbersstock.com/water-works/tracer-wire.html

 

From: Carl Peterson 

Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 10:18 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

 

We specced safe-trace with 1800lb pullback strength for our current project and 
will likely makenthat the standard for anything drilled in moving forward.  Not 
sure it is overkill.  

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

14 gauge is rugged and will last.  I think the gas company out here uses 14 
gauge.  20 gauge on up is not terribly strong.  UDOT recently changed their 
spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14 gauge.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

 

Don't you have some random copper laying around?  Our fiber tracer wire is 24 
awg.  Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the water/sewer lines. 
 The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could spend the money and 
follow the rules *shrug*. 

 

If the wire ends the locate ends.  Why not just extend the wire with the new 
pipe?

 

14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money down that 
new sewer line.

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require burying new 
water and sewer lines on the property. 

 

I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I plan on 
having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing.

 

I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec or 
provide exactly what I want buried.   Otherwise you'll end up with some 
inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work. 

 

Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had expected. 
 Insulation,  metal type, gauge, color, and so on. 

 

It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for.  But there are 
other options as well.    Does any of this work better or is less (or more) 
likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable?  I'm assuming green 
and blue will be needed for sewer and water. 

 

I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the possibility that 
at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that we can poke 
the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm assuming that one 
can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench and terminating to that. 

 

Any other things I should watch for here?

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PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

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